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This post was last modified: Wed Apr 26, 2006 09:07 AM by Missionary.

You are exactly correct in this Missionary. If God had not given us the gift of free will we would not be able to make the decision to come to know Christ as our Saviour. Now I know some would say that if we had not the gift of free will we would all realize the necessity for Salvation. However, that is not the case. It is a subject I have a difficult time putting into words. God has given us the right to make decisions and has also given us a way out of our bad decisions through His only begotten Son, Christ Jesus. It is an advantage that only saved and born again Christians have. (Unfortunately there are some who abuse the privilege but that is an entirely different subject.)

This whole thing goes back to Adam and Eve. Could God have prevented them from doing what they did? Certainly. Did He? Absolutely not. I believe the right to make decisions is the only true right we have in this life. This right to make decisions, no matter the consequences is quite obviously given us by The Father.

In Christ,
George

The Lord Jesus Christ, sent by God to redeem His people. Don't make a cliche out of the sufferings, death, and resurection of our Lord and Saviour. He is NOT a package that you pluck greedily out of someone's hands.
Pilgrim

[quote="George"]You are exactly correct in this Missionary. If God had not given us the gift of free will we would not be able to make the decision to come to know Christ as our Saviour. Now I know some would say that if we had not the gift of free will we would all realize the necessity for Salvation. However, that is not the case. It is a subject I have a difficult time putting into words. God has given us the right to make decisions and has also given us a way out of our bad decisions through His only begotten Son, Christ Jesus. It is an advantage that only saved and born again Christians have. (Unfortunately there are some who abuse the privilege but that is an entirely different subject.)

This whole thing goes back to Adam and Eve. Could God have prevented them from doing what they did? Certainly. Did He? Absolutely not. I believe the right to make decisions is the only true right we have in this life. This right to make decisions, no matter the consequences is quite obviously given us by The Father.

George; You seem to beleive what you wrote, I wonder if you have a scriptural basis to back it up?
Rm.8:7 says "the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so." Since we were/are sinners (before coming to Christ) how is it that we have this 'free will' of yours, when God in His Word, says that sinner's 'minds' can NOT submit to God and is hostile to Him.
Pilgrim

God's Word says,

Some of Gods Creation say: (A paraphrase of the previous verse)

It seems the Sovereignty of God, which I absolutely believe in, is often elevated about the justice and rightuosness of God. None of God's perfections can be elevated above another. So God's sovereignty and Righteous Justice all have to be equal.

I do not stand in judgment of God, Paul makes this clear in Romans. But, I cannot see how a just and rigthous God can condemn someone who never had the opportunity to turn to Him in repentance.

The numerous "whosoever wills" of Scripture lead me to believe in an inescapable balance between the Sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man. It is a balance we may never understand.[/quote]

mnwickens posted: "It seems the Sovereignty of God, which I absolutely believe in, is often elevated about the justice and rightuosness of God. None of God's perfections can be elevated above another. So God's sovereignty and Righteous Justice all have to be equal."

I am not sure if you are pointing this in answer to the question "free from what?" or not.

How can we as created beings question what God does? I believe the verse is something like ' Who are you, O man, to talk back to God'. Everything God does is Perfect. It is not a matter of elevating anything God does above another, but rather 'accepting' and 'believing' who He is and what He does. He is after all the Creator and we the creation. Who are we to tell Him He is not fair or just. You may have more of a problem with His Soverignty than you realize or admit to. It is a total package. You cannot take one portion and say 'Oh, I believe that' and refuse another.

Pilgrim

Romans 9:20
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Here you are again judging someone elses understanding of God's sovereignty. Again, I will say here that brother Martin is man of God who, I believe, understand the concept of the sovereignty of God as well as any man. He is also a dear brother in Christ.

Is God's sovereignty yours alone to understand? Is God's sovereignty only found in the doctrine of Calvinism?

It seems that the pride that the TULIP doctrine tries to effectively stand against may cause the reverse to happen in some people.

I refer you to here:

http://www.fundamentalpreaching.com/foru....php?t=655

Love in Christ,

Jim