Secession

[Davo]

Davo Wrote:I cannot understand tis obsession with "illegal aliens"

You are all "illegal aliens"

No one invited you there.

Pull the ladder up, Jack, I'm all right.

I can't believe I actually wrote that,
I apologize.

[Jerry80871852]

Davo Wrote:

Davo Wrote:I cannot understand tis obsession with "illegal aliens"

You are all "illegal aliens"

No one invited you there.

Pull the ladder up, Jack, I'm all right.

I can't believe I actually wrote that,
I apologize.

Accepted and thank you.

[Bro Nobody]

And the illegal alien laws and attitudes follow the intent of Christ’s words… how?

Luke 6: 27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Please do not misunderstand. I am not for illegal immigration, I am actually against it but for a totally opposite reasons than I ever see noted anywhere. I live in Honduras, ie south of Mexico. Hondurans are not permitted into Mexico legally for many of the same reasons the USA uses. So those that cross to the USA are at risk the whole way.

My problem is this. Many people here want to go to the USA for one reason. $$$. Not for religious or personal liberty. Their urge to go to the USA is exacerbated by tv, cable and advertising showing the “better” life. You’re a nothing unless you live like or have this or that or…. I know of many folks who leave their families here and go to the USA illegally. (One paper stated up to 23% of all Honduras’ income comes in this way) Only to soon forget them after they arrive. The need for a bigger apartment, car, nicer things, better clothes soon outweighs the original reason for going. Many begin a new life there even starting a new family and forgetting those left behind. Until they get caught and come back in shame to the families they left. It is just another tool of satan to break the family unit ordained of God. I have even seen pastors of churches leave the pastorate and family with the excuse they can help more by sending back money to the church and family….Not all do this but I have seen it enough to know it happens to most at some level….

[Jerry80871852]

Bro Nobody Wrote:And the illegal alien laws and attitudes follow the intent of Christ’s words… how?

Luke 6: 27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Please do not misunderstand. I am not for illegal immigration, I am actually against it but for a totally opposite reasons than I ever see noted anywhere. I live in Honduras, ie south of Mexico. Hondurans are not permitted into Mexico legally for many of the same reasons the USA uses. So those that cross to the USA are at risk the whole way.

My problem is this. Many people here want to go to the USA for one reason. $$$. Not for religious or personal liberty. Their urge to go to the USA is exacerbated by tv, cable and advertising showing the “better” life. You’re a nothing unless you live like or have this or that or…. I know of many folks who leave their families here and go to the USA illegally. (One paper stated up to 23% of all Honduras’ income comes in this way) Only to soon forget them after they arrive. The need for a bigger apartment, car, nicer things, better clothes soon outweighs the original reason for going. Many begin a new life there even starting a new family and forgetting those left behind. Until they get caught and come back in shame to the families they left. It is just another tool of satan to break the family unit ordained of God. I have even seen pastors of churches leave the pastorate and family with the excuse they can help more by sending back money to the church and family….Not all do this but I have seen it enough to know it happens to most at some level….

If you love your enemies, surely you would not encourage them to break the law, nor help them break the law. Neither would you encourage them to follow a false hope.

[George]

Quote:If you love your enemies, surely you would not encourage them to break the law, nor help them break the law. Neither would you encourage them to follow a false hope.

Amen Brother Jerry! I also have read through this thread and I cannot see anywhere where it is stated anyone "hates" illegal aliens. Only someone who is unable to separate the person from the action would do that. What someone does is not who they are. I very much dislike the problems the illegal aliens are causing in my state but that does not mean I do not love the people who are involved. They need Christ just as much as I do.

I live in an area of California in which over 60% of the population is Mexican and a great deal of those illegal at that. The drain they have on our economy is incredible. We, the taxpayers and legal residents as well as citizens of the United States are paying their way.

they go to the public schools. That costs money. They go to the local hospital emergency room because they do not have insurance and no one else will treat them. That costs money and drives the cost of health care up. It also causes a person who needs to go to the ER to wait up to three to four hours to see a physician unless they are unconscious or bleeding to death. Hardly any of them have driver's licenses, they have no insurance on their vehicles and they are often not registered. Every weekend out local law enforcement people run check points to seek out drunk drivers and such. The end result is that there are always a load of cars impounded for no driver's license of the driver, expired registration and no insurance. This all costs tons of money.

For anyone who does not understand the problems we have with illegal aliens they ought to come and live here for a while. They will quickly learn that prices for everything are driven up by their presence. Taxes in this State are also sky high because we have to pay for all the free services the illegals get. I could go on and on but this really is not a political forum.

In Christ,
George

[IM4given]

I wish I was an illegal alien so I would not have to repay my student loans!

[Jerry80871852]

IM4given Wrote:I wish I was an illegal alien so I would not have to repay my student loans!

Being a citizen of this United States once upon a time, this is no fairy tale, use to have many advantages, perhaps the one with the most advantage now is the illegal immigrant. Even our president and many members of our congress fight for their illegal rights.

[IM4given]

I am so looking forward to the day of Jesus return, aren't you? Won't it be wonderful when we get raptured out of all this mess. I won't miss it a bit!!!!!

Perhaps today will be the day?

[Bro Nobody]

Luke 6: 27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

George, I'm a little confused here, So smiting someone and taking there goods and told by the LORD to let them do it again... is helping someone break the Law?
I think you miss the point of my posts. I do not encourage them to go. I discourage them from going... for Biblical reasons... Not because of policy law of the USA that changes with the wind of political correctness.
BTW I do not have insurance(no possible way to afford it) and have a wife with cancer... And we trust in the LORD with all, and thus far he has taken care of all our needs AND we have no dept and have 17 orphaned/abused children living with us and pray for food to be at our table daily... And hate is brewing out there is on both sides of this issue and growing due to the political embers being fanned. (Not saying it is within these posts) Also sin is not restricted to south of the border by any measure. Truth be told most of the ills I see in ministry have some kind of root touching American cable tv and music that is piped here relentlessly...But that would put us into another topic thread that I think most here agree on.

[George]

Quote:George, I'm a little confused here, So smiting someone and taking there goods and told by the LORD to let them do it again... is helping someone break the Law?

I am a little confused myself here. I will try to respond to this as best I can. There is something wrong with the structure of this sentence and it does not make sense to me.

If I or anyone else for that matter, does supply any kind of aid to someone who is breaking the law then yes, it definitely is helping them to continue to break the law. Does not the Bible say we are supposed to obey all the laws of men? When someone is in a country illegally, and I don't care what country they are in or what their origin is, illegal means they broke the law. Anyone who aids them in any way ought to be put in jail themselves. That is scripturally correct.

I see a bit of sensitivity in the response here as no one has said in any way that the problem is limited to just those from south of the border. That was something that you read into the thread. In this particular case I can only address my response based on my own personal experience and that is with Mexicans plain and simple. It is widely thought that as many as 50% of the Mexicans in my community are here illegally. That is a tremendous drain on our resources.

Just the other day it was announced that funding for the bus that picks up our Veterans and takes them to the VA clinics is going to be cut and the service will no longer be available. Now contrast that with the illegal Mexicans. Our county government has funded a system of vans which pick up farm workers and take them to and from their jobs at no cost to the rider. So our county government, I.E., the taxpayers, i.e., myself and the other legal residents of this county is paying to bus illegal aliens to and from work and yet they will not continue funding to serve men and women who have dedicated portions of their lives in service to this country.

And you wonder why there are difficulties in this area.

In Christ,
George

[Bro Nobody]

Thanks George for clarity. Sorry about sentence structure. I used to have much more time online to dwell on writings, as of late only a few minutes once a week. So I wrote it as I thought it, without time to take into account every nuance or proof. No south of the border sensitivity, just sharing my perspective from our location, ie south of the border. My view on this happens to be the same as most posted here, just for different reasons.

My curiosity was how these verses apply to the opinion of those posting here. Can someone “legally” smite me and steal my goods and only them I should to allow it again? I don’t think so.
Truth be told, the reason for this mess (immigration) is sin. The God of “I” is at play on both sides. “I want, protect my stuff ect”, if sin was not at play this would not be an issue. If the USA did not give so much money away in entitlements to those able-bodies who “chose” not to work. Most would not be so sensitive on this subject. BTW For a time years ago, I worked for Laidlaw busing and picked up elderly and vets. They billed the government 100 times or more the cost of what we use to run our bus ministry in the church for. It was brutally expensive but the Gov picked up the tab and no-one questioned the price.It would be cheaper to pay a taxi and a nurse to go with them. A pick up and return was only a little less than an emergency ambulance run. I would pick up 10 elderly folk for a lunch and an exersize class or even to watch tv somewhere and they billed $300 a head. Plus those we took them too billed the government even more for their service. Not saying we shouldnt do those things but some common sence, godly wisdom and oversite seems missing.

There is no safety net here, Here if you don’t work you don’t eat…its quite an incentive and does wonders. We do have socialized medicine along side of a free market system. Doctors are required to donate time every week in order to have a license to practice medicine. The free market side works pretty good and is preferred by all and many sacrifice much to use it. It is a fraction of the cost of the USA (but, Not up to USA quality which is the best in the world) But nothing to total disregard either. (If the USA medical system was truly free market prices would be much cheaper without loosing quality.) My wife had her surgery here at 10% of the cost of USA by a US trained cancer specialist. A very poor lady in our church had the same surgery done free by the same doctor in the socialized hospital(but at much higher risk in a dirty hospital)I am now on an off track topic so I will end here. Might be a week or more before I check back. Great church service last night PCC college kids visited and sang and preached to our folks…good stuff.