Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

[Jerry80871852]

Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/...55,00.html

How long will it be before most churches embrace homosexual marriages? I believe its right around the corner with those rejecting it being few and far between.

May the Lord Bless,
Jerry

Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful
works to the children of men! Psalms 107:31

[Mongol Servant]

My good friend, Sam Gipp, has made a very interesting study on the downfall of various civilizations, empires, governments, states, et al, that I thought was quite an eye-opener. Most folks believe that Rome and others, fell due to economic or government-led calamities; some think wars and revolutions brought the demise of countries and peoples. But, the truth is, as Dr Gipp brings out, the fact that ALL of the former civilizations fell when one final factor took hold and became the predominant, or guiding, view of the government and people: when sodomites became overpowering and began dictating policy to the government and courts. I think you know what point America is at in this scenario. Too many Christians today, especially in America, are lazy, apathetic, naive, and have a "who cares" attitude in standing up to this abominable SIN. They're more concerned about "public opinion", or what their neighbors may think, than what GOD says! You need to remember that sodomites don't reproduce - they RECRUIT! How would you feel if Perez Hilton was your son's teacher or supervisor?! What about if Ellen Degenerate was your daughter's career counselor at school?! Christians, especially Baptists, need to get their head out of the news mafia's "mind-control", drop ALL the magazine and newspaper subscriptions (they perpetrate the vilest propaganda), get back in The Book, and stand up for The Lord - at the grassroots level, i.e. municipal/county government meetings, schoolboard meetings, public hearings, etc. Once things like abortion, sodomites, evolution in schools, and other wiles of the devil, become entrenched in the public fabric, it is too late. At that point, you have to create behemoth organizations (ADL, AFA, etc) and attempt to choke the monster from the neck down, by filing lawsuits, petitioning courts, rallying supporters, holding gatherings, buying news time, and on ad nauseum. Get with the program, America! It's like Mr Goodwrench used to say, "You can fight 'em now or fight 'em later," but the cost and results on the later scenario will be gargantuan. 'Nuff said!

[George]

Brothers I believe the Church against church (not capitalized of a purpose) started quite some time ago. Take a look at such as the United Church of Christ (not,) the United Methodists, the so-called Unity Chapel and others. I am really fearful for the Southern Baptist Convention also. Some time ago they started allowing the ordination of women. It is my fear that the sodomites will soon follow.

We who belong to Bible-believing, Bible-teaching Churches are very often looked down on and even have some pretty bad things said about us by people in those "churches."

I have been inspired to study Romans 14 these past couple of days. Although the majority of Romans 14 concerns food it goes deeper than that. For example right down the street from me there is a Assembly of God Church. They believe differently than we do and I believe some of their practices and doctrines are not scriptural. However the thing that must be remembered is that we are brothers in Christ. Would I attend services at their Church? No. However I don't believe that should stop me from fellowshipping with a fellow believer.

Than on the other hand are the ones I mentioned above as well as the Presbyterians, Episcopalians and others who ordain women, tolerate sodomites and other such things. Those I would not fellowship with but try to convince of their ways. Too often churches are changing to meet the standards of the world instead of the world changing to meet the standards of the Bible.

In Christ,
George

[Jerry80871852]

Public schools are to far gone, with the Federal Government dictating what it must do, most children that are sent to public schools are lost to the world, and its been that way for many years.

One thing for sure, if you stand for God's way, don't expect the world to love and support you, in fact if the world loves and supports you, your probably not walking close to God.

Going to court will never solve anything, creating certain laws will not solve the problems, the only thing that can solve the problems we face today is introducing Jesus Christ to one heart at a time,, that is our only mission.

Seems to me George, I'll use the same phrase as you did, churches against Churches, there is a hate being generates from the ones with the little c towards the ones with the big C.

I think the SBC has already cross over the top.

About 5 years ago I had a lady call me one night, she asked me to listen to what she had just experienced at our small town local SBC Church them give my opinion.

They had just finished Vacation Bible School are were having the program that follows Vacation Bible School.

Several young girls came out, line up across the stage, they played one of those Commentary Christian song, the young girls sang it. By the way, most of the were dressed in shorts and jeans. the clapped their hands and danced to the music, even to the point of turning their backs to the congregation and moving their back ends in suggestive motions.

She told me, "I looked around, watching the expressions on the men's faces, it seems as if they were really taking this portion in and that their minds was not of things of God during that time."

I feel being taught this in church may very well lead some of thes young girls ages 12 to 16 to do very worldly things later in their life.

By the way, she said at the end of the service the pastor talked about how good of a program it was and how they were bringing their children up in the ways of God.

Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


In Christ,
Jerry

[candlelight]

Mongal Servant said:

But, the truth is, as Dr Gipp brings out, the fact that ALL of the former civilizations fell when one final factor took hold and became the predominant, or guiding, view of the government and people: when sodomites became overpowering and began dictating policy to the government and courts.

WOW! That is a wonderful observation. And, it makes perfect sense.

Brother George said:

Too often churches are changing to meet the standards of the world instead of the world changing to meet the standards of the Bible.

Amen! That is so VERY true.

Pastor Jerry said:

Public schools are to far gone, with the Federal Government dictating what it must do, most children that are sent to public schools are lost to the world, and its been that way for many years.

One thing for sure, if you stand for God's way, don't expect the world to love and support you, in fact if the world loves and supports you, your probably not walking close to God.

Preach it, Pastor Jerry! Thank you for the scripture verses, as well.

God blesses His children,

Molly

[Jerry80871852]

Its hard for me to say that about public schools, for I understand well they be many parents who do not have the money to send their children to private or church sponsored schools.

But we have to face facts, and the facts speak for them self, all we have to do is look at the number of Christians families whose children attended public school and we what direction they took in life.

And how about the truth of this verse.

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Man is more educated today than ever before in the history of man, but has that education led man to be a more moral person and walking closer to God?

In His Service,
Jerry

[IM4given]

I think this is is a way of seperating the wheat from the chaff so to speak - seems like we are having a skimpier harvest as each year goes by, doesn't it? We are supposed to be like the lump of leaven that changes the whole loaf - but it seems like our leaven has simply turned into sour dough, now hasn't it? The devil has beguiled many many people into thinking they are living their life for God, but the reality is they are not worshipping God at all - and if you tell them that they are shocked and angry and want to demonize YOU for daring to speak the truth! We are living in an age when right is wrong and wrong is right - and it happened in one short generation!

[George]

Quote:and it happened in one short generation!

I believe it has been happening quite a bit longer than that. If you recall the Supreme Court took the Bible and prayer out of the schools in the '60s. We are into the fourth or fifth generation that has come up without the Bible and prayer. They know no such thing as the difference between right and wrong. They know no such thing as truth much less Absolute Truth. What is truth to one may not be truth to the other.

One of the biggest blows to the lost today is to tell them the Bible says they ought not be doing a certain thing. Usually it is a number of things but if you dump that all on them at once they run away very quickly. When a Bible-believing, Bible-teaching Christian tells such people they ought not be doing something because it is contrary to God's word we are accused of taking away their freedom. The sad thing is that rather than be free they are in bondage to their sins.

It even pervades the ranks of the liberal Christians. There are many people out there who call themselves Christian yet they want to live as close as they possibly can to being in hell without actually going there. Many of them may be surprised. In all honesty there are some independent, fundamental Baptists who are going to be quite surprised where they end up also.

(Heb 9:27) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

That is a pretty sobering thought to me.

In Christ,
George

[Mongol Servant]

2 observations about the public schools:

1 - regardless whether or not "the public schools are gone," you pay taxes in a particular county, therefore it is your duty (just like voting) to stand up in the local school board meetings, and voice your Christian opinion regarding what is taught, who it is taught by, and what material (textbooks) are used. You better believe that the God-haters will be voicing their opinions. Why can't we stand up for our rights - Carrie Prejean did, from the State that everyone thinks is so liberal and gone! This is what I meant by most American Baptists, have the "who cares" attitude. That's the reason the schools are GONE - we didn't stand up and be counted - the evolutionists, sodomites, abortionists, and all the other God-haters did.

2 - our "institutions of higher learning" have been taken over (as George mentioned) about 4 to 5 generations ago, by the intellectual "thinkers" (read: God-haters) and their anti-American agenda. They believe and teach, our up and coming economists, statesmen, artists, musicians, engineers, and every other stripe of administrator, the "benefits" of a secular, anti-religious view in propagating their lives, families, and careers. At the same time, they bemoan EVERY aspect of the Judeo-Christian heritage that is the bedrock of our society. These are the people who run 99% of the news outlets, and give all the great "coverage" to people like Madelyn O'Hare, Michael Newdow, Perez Hilton, and Rosie O'Donnell. As long as Christians pay any attention to these dunces, and allow them to affect any part of their, or their family's life, this cancer will continue to spread. Ask any recent college grad if he's heard of Marx's Communist Manifesto. The answer will probably be a resounding "yes." Then ask if he's even heard of Frederic Bastiat's "The Law" or Roger Sherman's "A Caveat Against Injustice," and tell us what the answer is. Those two books used to be required reading in our colleges and universities, until about 100 years ago. If those books had been ingrained into the minds of our leaders, instead of Marx's trash, we might still have a constitutional republic, instead of a federal oligarchy, that is attempting to make the USA, just another "global partner."

As Christians, we should be standing up at every opportunity, in following Jude and earnestly contending for the faith. You can't do that if you've resigned yourself (and your posterity) to failure, and are in a bunker-mentality just "waiting for the rapture" brother! Jesus said occupy til I come.

[Jerry80871852]

Public school have been ruined for many years, many of those who were from Christians families that I went to school with back in the 60's were lost to the world, and with each new generations its waxed worse. Yes, the public schools have been lost for many years.

As for Carrie Prejean, her witnessing power is lost, how can a Christians woman bare so much flesh in from of all of America and witness to anyone? Please don't tell me, I've heard all of the very liberal Christians defend her.

My Christian duty is to; Go, Teach, Baptize, not vote, get entangled in the affairs of this world, not be yoked up with unbelievers, I'm a Christian soldier, not a worldly soldier.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2Ti 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please Him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Changing the laws will not change people, but we do know someone who can change their hearts, Jesus, 100 % of our resources ought to be put into our Christian work that Jesus has created us to do, after all we are His workmanship.

[candlelight]

Great points... Fundamental Preaching members. *smile*

Yes... prayer was taken out of the public school system in 1964. I remember that, b/c it was the year that I was born. And, in 1973 Roe v. Wade went to the Supreme Court; and, as we know abortion became legal in this country. *sickening*

As far as IM's post?... I think maybe she was trying to state that "we as a nation - USA" are so very young. Short generation? "No"... but, a short time period in the history of this country... compared to other countries. It is kind of like a "slow drip" method, imo. Is that what you meant, Janet?

I also see Mongal Servant's point, too. I DO believe in getting actively involved in this area; however, as an IFB preacher... I can see where Pastor Jerry would have reservations in this area. Imo, you have "enough on your plate." Me? I choose to get involved in this area... b/c the Lord as put it on my heart to do so. Personal conviction is all... in this area. Just my 2 pennies on this one.

In His service ~

Molly

[Jerry80871852]

Wonder what it seems like to the unbeliever?

You stop by and talk to them, trying to get them to freely accept Jesus as their Savoir and freely follow Him and His Ways, them they see you fighting, more or less, to try and get laws put in place that will make them follow Jesus even if they don't want to?

Do you suppose they will see you as an hypocrite?

Laws did not work in the Old Testament Days, so God ushered in grace, so are we now suppose to drop grace and fight to get laws put in place that makes everyone follow God's rules?

Our purpose, he created us, Jesus did, to be His workmen, to Go, Teach, and Baptize teaching them to observe that which Jesus has taught us to do.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Seems to me, many have lost their way, they want to force everyone to follow Jesus just as they do by passing laws and forget about God's grace. A heart changed by Jesus is the only thing that will work.

I think for many of the big Christian organizations it has become a way for them to live high off of Christians.

In Christ,
Jerry

[Mongol Servant]

Jerry, I appreciate your comments. One thing that may be very beneficial for you is Pastor James Beller's two books entitled: "America in Crimson Red" and "The Coming Destruction of the Baptist People." Bro Johnny Esposito has done a masterful job in his book entitled "Sleeping Through a Revolution: Compromising Christians in a Corrupt Culture."

I too, am a soul-winner, and always seek to speak with others about Christ 1st. However, I am also an American, and I have an extremely difficult time believing that my God and Saviour wanted me to turn our country over to a bunch of pagans. I think it very unbiblical for Baptists to turn their backs to problems and changes in our land, when The Lord has clearly blessed our people and government, as long as He was put first in our dealings with each other and with other countries. The Apostle Paul got in the faces of leaders, and others, all over Asia - got plans for having a sit-down meeting with your municipal/county/State representatives? Sent them a gospel tract with an invitation to your church? Wrote them about all the ungodly attitudes, laws, and courts they are instigating? Textbooks taught the biblical view of creation for over 150 years, then the God-haters had the law changed, and I'm supposed to accept it, so they have a "nice, unhypocritical" view of me? I hope you're kidding. Being a Biblical Christian entails much, much more than just giving out the gospel. After getting them in the boat, you have to disciple them. Webster said many years ago, that "If God's word and his precepts are not propagated throughout our land, the devil and his precepts will be." Which way do you want it? Hypocrite or not, I don't form my views based on how lost people view Christians. Jesus said not to cast your pearls before swine - am I supposed to give up our biblical laws against sodomites, so they can have a nice attitude towards me and spread their vile filth all over our country? I trow not, my brother. Remember "salt" and "light" - neither are passive, unless they have lost their savour!

[Upholder]

Jerry80871852 Wrote:Laws did not work in the Old Testament Days, so God ushered in grace, so are we now suppose to drop grace and fight to get laws put in place that makes everyone follow God's rules?

Yes, it is true that a government can't force everyone to follow Jesus, and it would be silly for Christians to try to make the government do so. Salvation cannot be legislated into existence; it is something that must occur in a person's heart.

But do you really believe that it is wrong for a government to make any laws that would make people follow God's rules? Should a government allow people to murder, steal, and bear false witness? Those are all "God's rules"!

People say that "religion" shouldn't influence lawmaking. But what do you think the laws of a nation will look like once God's rules are removed?

Well, look around. It's happening before our very eyes!

[George]

I am sure seeing some great thoughts expressed here.Thank you all for the input. I think we can go farther with this one.

Quote:As for Carrie Prejean, her witnessing power is lost, how can a Christians woman bare so much flesh in from of all of America and witness to anyone?

Brother you are completely correct in that statement. She had no creditability with me in the first place. Where in God's Bible does it say that women are to parade around in front of TV cameras and millions of people wearing nothing more than a skimpy bathing suit? In my Bible it speaks of women dressing modestly. Perhaps this young "lady" uses one of those modern "versions" of the Bible?

As to the political aspects of the discussion I find it very true that we, as Christian peoples, have gone too far into our shells. We have established our own little comfort zones and as long as no one interferes in that zone we are okay.

The comment was made about witnessing to people and then having them see us fighting about things. I do not see that as being hypocritical at all but as a method of showing that we stand up for what is right. We stand up for principles (at least we are supposed to,) and support causes that bolster the things of God in this country. As far as I know the basis of the laws in this country are Christian. If we, as a people meaning Christians in general, withdraw from trying to influence the laws and policies of this country we would have been a lot further in the gutter than we have been and a lot quicker. We cannot sit back and be apathetic as we watch our country and the rest of the world crumble around us. Granted it and they are crumbling as we speak but if we remain active in supporting Biblical principles and candidates who support our principles and values we can help to make a difference.

The subject of forcing people to accept Jesus Christ was brought up a bit ago. Speaking personally it is not my desire nor has it been my practice to attempt to force or coerce anyone to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. It is definitely my desire but forcing or coercing does not work. Attempting to force or coerce someone into doing anything will back fire. Things that are accepted grudgingly are not truly accepted. There is always the feeling of resentment attached to that sort of acceptance.

People greatly misunderstand the intentions of Christian people who are witnesses for the Lord. Often we are styled as being strict, bossy, uncaring and yes, even hateful. It is very difficult for me to try to show people that just the opposite is true. What we offer others is freedom. It is the true Freedom of Jesus Christ and it lasts an eternity. If only I could figure out a way to convince the lost that I care so incredibly much for their state and their lives.

I was witnessing to a catholic couple some time back. I used many Bible quotations during my time with them. When they asked me what Church I attended and I told them First Baptist Church their first question was, "Isn't that Church really strict?" My answer to them was that if they meant by strict that we attempted to go by what the Bible says to do and not to do then yes, it is a strict Church. However that does not mean that my heart does not go out for them.

I honestly believe that if we do not try to influence the communities we live in with the values Christ has instilled in us we are failing Him greatly.

In Christ,
George