Where we stand in responsibility to our government

[Jim]

This is something I am going to post, and it really rubs against my flesh and my feelings toward our current U.S. federal administration, but scripture says it, and it is true.

Romans 13:1
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

What?!?! You mean the bible says I should pay taxes?! Yes folks, that is what it says:

Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due

You know, I was thinking about something else also. Although we do have current administration passing bills and laws telling us we must do these things, we must NEVER forget, that the signers of the U.S. Consitution, did not necessarily feel this way. The Consitution DOES in fact allow for a militia to beformed against a domestic tyrant. Who is it up to, to determine how far it must go before we can advocate militant action against a tyrannical governement? Just a thought...

Moving along, we ARE to obey our leaders in government, as outlined in the first 5 verses.

We are to PRAY for our leaders:

1 Timothy:
2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

We are to OBEY and SUBMIT to our leaders:

Hebrews:
13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Peter:
2:13
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.


Man will say, "But what if the commands they give conflict with God's Word?"

I answer:

Acts 4:18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. 4:19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. 4:20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

You see, Peter and John did NOT command to obey man over God, nor did he say Obey God over man. Now listen carefully. If man's ordinances conflict with God's Word, then obey God's Word. HOWEVER, be READY and WILLING to accept the consequences to that decision, and do not revile against it. Jesus never did, he accepted man's punishment according to man's laws when the time came. Paul also had many stripes laid across him, and was jailed many times. Did he fight against it? No, in fact he was caught singing in prison with Silas, and then the Jailer was converted! Praise God, what a testimony! You see man's judgement is fallacy, but God's is not, and ultimately the Lord God is our judge.

1 Peter 2:23
Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

What also does the bible say when we are reviled?

1 Peter:
2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God

Love in Christ,

Jim

[IM4given]

IF we think WE have it bad, just remember that those verses of scripture were written when the Jews were under Roman rule! So far I have not seen any leaders of our government crucify any of us on their crosses (all though that may not be too far off in the distant future! YIKES! )

Our country was founded on Biblical Principles, to be sure, but we need to turn to the US Constitution for determining if and when we should seek to overthrow an unrighteous dictatorship. All of those people in Washington each and every one of them have sworn oaths to defend and protect the Constitution - and they have NOT done so. I have been waiting for the bolts of lightening to strike people like Barney Frank and Tim Geithner, just any moment now - but so far that is not happening.

God is allowing those evil men and women to rule over us, because we are a nation that has forgotten God. Just like God allowed the evil rulers of old to rule over the Jewish people, because they forgot God. I think we need some good old fashioned hell and brimstone preachers in this country who are not afraid to stand up for God and to lead the people back to Him. We need a revival in this land! and until people get their hearts and lives right with God we are all going to have to suffer the consequenses of this sinful nation.

[Jim]

The U.S. Constitution can be referred to all the time, our Federal Government, as you said, no longer respects it.

"but we need to turn to the US Constitution for determining if and when we should seek to overthrow an unrighteous dictatorship."

Well, the U.S. Consitution gives no provision for laws of any nature to determine if we can overthrow it. That was the Declaration of Independence, also of which we need to readopt in accordance to how our government is currently operating.

I quote:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "

Plain and clear to me. I believe we have seen our federal government over the past 130 years become destructive of these ends, and it's not the Republicans or Democrats that are going to fix it. They both need to sink in the same boat.

Love in Christ,

Jim

[candlelight]

Thanks, Jim... for your posts. Well said! The scriptures say it all. Amen.

God bless,

Molly

[ChuckieTrout]

IM4given Wrote:. . . . . they forgot God. I think we need some good old fashioned hell and brimstone preachers in this country who are not afraid to stand up for God and to lead the people back to Him. We need a revival in this land! and until people get their hearts and lives right with God we are all going to have to suffer the consequenses of this sinful nation.

Your so right IM4G; My son (very proud Dad...sorry) has proclaimed from his pulpit <http://newhopebaptistchurchbeaufortnc.com/default.aspx> to be ready for what is to come, as he refuses to compromise GODS Holy word; this very topic will make or break us all!!
Once again thanx Jim for Godly insight & topics!!!!!!!!

[deputydog530]

Great post Jim. We to at our Church refuse to compromise the Word of God. I have seen lots of folks leave over this but that is ok. For we will all give an account.

I need to do better to pray for our president and other leaders.

God Bless

dd

[ChuckieTrout]

deputydog530 Wrote:Great post Jim. We to at our Church refuse to compromise the Word of God. I have seen lots of folks leave over this but that is ok. For we will all give an account.

I need to do better to pray for our president and other leaders.

God Bless

dd

Interesting point 'DD', I find myself praying for president Obamas salvation or for his removal by lack of USA birthright or Godly judgement...not sure on that wisdom though (next in line gulp). I think this country is only getting what it deserves for its turning her back on God.

[RobertM]

As I read, Romans 13 does not violate any other scripture, but our forfathers faced the same thing we face today. The Government, Gods instituion, was formed to protect us against evil. I also read that the government was not to be a terror to good works. Since this has become the problem and the Government has become evil in that it promotes evil and persecutes the good, we need to become More dilligent in praying for our leaders but we must continually educate ourselves in the protective measures that were placed by our founding fathers to keep this kind of tyrrany out of office. We also need to become more proactive in the battle so the weight does not fall on the few. If this fails we may need to seek further measures to protect our nation.

[deputydog530]

We, know what the Bible says about the times getting worse and worse. Thus our response should be a Biblical one, such as, pray without ceasing, obey the law of the land while we obey God over men. etc. You get the point. This is where the Church is falling short. Christians do not study 2 tim 2:15, they do not pray as they should, they do not serve, they do not soul win. Many Churches have a hard time getting people to sign up to mow the lawn or clean the church building. As the statement goes 90% of the work is done by 10% of the people.

Tim

[RobertM]

The issue to my mind is not the local church but the universal church. God has always had a remnant and 2 Cronicles 7:14 calls for gos people to turn from their personal wicked ways, and seek his Face. which is his will his desire and his leading and then he said he would hear and heal the land. o many christians are not seeking his face and for this reason we are not experiencing his blessing. What is his will for the church in america during these hard times?