Two Babylons in Revelation...

[candlelight]

John (exiled on the Island of Patmos) gives a description in the Bible of 2 Babylons... as I understand. One of them is a world religion as mentioned in the Book of Revelation - Chapter 17. The other Babylon is a nation where iniquity (sin) has been abounding. Material wealth, idleness of hands, and a plague of sin has taken over this once well respected nation.

The judgment God sends on "political" Babylon is mentioned in the Old Testament in Jeremiah 50:24... I have laid a snare for thee, and thou art also taken, O Babylon, and thou wast not aware: thou art found, and also caught, because thou hast striven against the LORD. "Judgment and Utter Destruction of Babylon" Revelation 18:10... Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. "The Fall of Babylon" This all happens in the Great Tribulation.

Praise the Lord that all "true" born-again believers will be gone prior to this horrific event. I Thessalonians 4:16-18... 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort (cheer) ane another with these words. "The coming of the Lord"

My question is this: Do both "political" and "religious" Babylon fall at the same time? I know that Christ will return after that to place his feet on the mount of Olives. Zechariah 14:4... And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. "The Day of the Lord" Amen!

Comments please...

Romans 8:39... Nor height, nor depth, not any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. King James Bible

[candlelight]

I took this post from another thread.

RE: Revived Roman Empire

From what I have studied and understand about Rome and the RCC, Rome is the current seat of power for Satan on this Earth. In the end times, the antichrist will arise from the people, not the church. The false prophet will, I believe, be the enpowered pope at that time. If any one religion would be in a position to become a "one-world" religion, Catholicism definitely fits the bill. The pope is easily the most recognized religious leader in the world today, and it seems to only make sense that the antichrist would use that notariety to promote his "one world religion" .


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Living my life one day at a time
Robert


Correct me if I am wrong brothers and sisters. From what I have read... the RCC uses "Babylon" as their code word. However, was it not the Protestants that feared the Anti-Christ would be the Pope of the RCC? I know we have had many anti-christs. I have read, though, that the "actual" Anti-Christ will come out of the European Union - Revived Roman Empire. Isn't he then placed in the Vatican to rule the nations during the Tribulation Period? Since the Holy Spirit is not present after the Rapture... I was curious as to how this would all fit... other than what we know from the Bible, of course.

This, of course, fits with my first post. Religious Babylon and/or Political Babylon? I can't even fathom the chaos after the Christ followers are taken away. God only knows.

Romans 1:16... For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. "The World Needs a Saviour" King James Bible

[Jim]

OK, let's look at this a little bit.

First, I need to point out the most important part of what you have said here.

You said:

Quote:Since the Holy Spirit is not present after the Rapture...

I also used to think this, but think about this: Is not the Holy Spirit a unit of the Holy Trinity? Since it is, then the Holy Spirit cannot deny or eliminate His attribute of tri-unity. The Holy Spirit will always be present, no matter what. What will not be present after the rapture is the effect of the Holy Spirit as put forth bthrough the body of believers.

As for the anit-christ, yes, as we said in the Revived Roman Empire thread, he will come out of it as the "little horn". He will rise out of what may possibly be the European Union (also conjecture), and I do not believe he will be the pope. It just doesn't add up.

I am also VERY careful of believing that the anti-christ will have anything to do with religion. If he does, it will be in the form of agreeing with it in a general sense, kind of like Barack Obama is attempting to do(no, I am not relating Barack Obama to the AC). Anyway, the AC will use the vatican and the "Holy See" to establish the new religion that will ultimately worship himself.

People need to understand that eyes will all be on Israel during the 70th week of Daniel. That is what the 70th week is all about. Israel, period. It's not known as the "Time of Jacob's trouble" for nothing.

We need to be careful about bringing in things that seem to be, but are not really. Will the catholic church play a role in the 70th week? Absolutely, but not to the extent, I believe, that we think they will. The religion of the RCC will be used during that time to purport the one world order's religion, but not control it.

We also need to understand and not forget that Israel is not looking for a "Messiah", they never were. They are looking for a secular deliverer. They have never believed that their covenant was finished, and they never will, at least not until the middle of the 70th week. That is why they are going to see the AC as their deliverer, because he will bring them their long-awaited "peace". THAT is what they are looking for, a new secular deliverer, to give them peace, and autonomy away from gentile control.

Love in Christ,

Jim

[candlelight]

Thanks Jim. Your post is comforting to me. It makes perfect sense about the Holy Spirit. Thank you for stating that.

Also, it never really did "add up" to me that the AC would be the pope of the RCC. My thoughts on that were simply that it is too easy. Does that make sense?

Is it safe to say the RCC will play a part in the End Times as aiding in the "One World Religion" then? As I understand... the Protestants were the group to start the "Ecumenical Movement"; therefore, it would seem logical to me that many of those religions would play a major role in the Emergent Church. And, Baptists that are "Left Behind." What about Islam, Buddism, Hinduism, etc... Will these religions be a "key" factor in the Emergent Church?

Jim said:
People need to understand that eyes will all be on Israel during the 70th week of Daniel. That is what the 70th week is all about. Israel, period. It's not known as the "Time of Jacob's trouble" for nothing.

Amen!

Jim said:
We also need to understand and not forget that Israel is not looking for a "Messiah", they never were. They are looking for a secular deliverer. They have never believed that their covenant was finished, and they never will, at least not until the middle of the 70th week. That is why they are going to see the AC as their deliverer, because he will bring them their long-awaited "peace". THAT is what they are looking for, a new secular deliverer, to give them peace, and autonomy away from gentile control.

This is leading me to believe that Babylon will be political rather than religious in nature.

I am sorry that I started another thread on this. I noticed the other thread after I posted this. Oops.

Romans 8:14-15...14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Ab'-ba Father. "Free from Indwelling Sin"

[Jim]

Quote:Also, it never really did "add up" to me that the AC would be the pope of the RCC. My thoughts on that were simply that it is too easy. Does that make sense?

I know exactly where you are coming from

Quote:This is leading me to believe that Babylon will be political rather than religious in nature.

I think you are probably right about that.

Quote:I am sorry that I started another thread on this. I noticed the other thread after I posted this. Oops.

No problem at all. Since this is the next thing on the prophetic "calendar", it is an important topic.

Love in Christ,

Jim

[candlelight]

Thank you Brother Jim.

We know that the "Tribulation" will last seven years. It is clear from the Bible, that it will be the WORST time in the history of the earth. All one has to do is read the Book of Revelation, to get a glimpse of the terrifying happenings, at this time, in the earth's existence.

I know that God's purpose for this time is to allow many Jewish people to get saved. The 144,000 virgin, Jewish evangelists will proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ across the world. These 144,000 Jewish men will number 12,000 (each of the 12 tribes of Israel.) This is noted in Revelation 7:4-8. Also, as I understand, as people accept Christ as Personal Saviour... their faith in Him will be a martyr's death. Then, the Jews will enter the Millenninum to gain the promises of the kingdom to Israel... made by God Almighty in His convenants to them. Does this sound accurate?

God will also pour out His judgment on ALL unbelieving men and ALL nations. These last 42 months (3 1/2 years) will be so horribly frightening. This is called the "Great Tribulation." Revelation 6:14-17... 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? "The Opening of the Seals" King James Bible

My question is about the Gentile people who are "Left Behind?" I believe that God will save many of the Gentiles (if that is correct), but what about those who have already heard the Gospel, prior to the "Rapture"... and have not come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ? Is there any hope for them? For example, we know that a person comes to salvation in Jesus Christ "by grace though faith." What about that person who has the "head knowledge" but their "heart" has not caught up with their head? They haven't made the connection, yet (by faith)... and have not trusted in Jesus Christ as Personal Saviour, prior to the "Tribulation Period."

THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO ST. JOHN:

John 1:12... But as many as received him, to them gave the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 3:16-17... 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Authorized King James Bible - Translated out of the original Greek, and with the former translations diligently compared.