Baptist Colleges

[Preach_Christ]

What are some Baptist Colleges that you all would recommend?

[George]

The thing I recommend that you do is get your hands on a copy of The Sword of The Lord. Every other issue has a Bible College directory in the center of it. You can rest assured that if the school has been accepted for advertising in The Sword of The Lord it is a good, conservative, fundamental Baptist Bible College. There are a lot of them all across the Country.

In Christ,
George Groce

[Preach_Christ]

I do recieve the Sword of the Lord publication and I have looked through it. I was looking for some more insight from people here @ the forum.

[Jim]

Well, I am sort of biased, but I would highly recommend Bob Jones University.

The secular world hates this college with a passion, so it must be doing something right. A lot of their students go to our church.

Just my opinion

Jim

[George]

If you wouldn't mind, it would help if I knew where you are. Are you willing to travel? Have you that flexibility and capability? I h ave investigated a number of them myself. There are some excellent ones out there.

As Brother Jim said, you can't go wrong with Bob Jones. Three of our four Pastors are BJU graduates. If these gentlemen are any indication of the kind of gradutate Bob Jones supplies (and I believe them to be) it is a great school.

Yours in Christ,
George Groce

[Preach_Christ]

I am fairly surprised to hear BJU mentioned in this forum. Their stance on the King James Bible has slipped substantially (Greek Texts used in classes). BJU was very strong in the past, but I fear for their future. I would never discredit your pastor's education there, I just believe that BJU has slipped a bit.

A lot of the secular world hate marylyn manson, but that doesn't mean that he's doing something right. I am in no way comparing him and BJU, just an example of world viewpoints.

BJU is pretty much out of the question for me. What other institutions would you recommend?

[Jim]

What is your basis for belief that BJU has slipped from using the KJV?

Is there something wrong with using Greek texts? (As long as you are focusing on Koine, not Classical)

I can vouch for BJU that the usage of the KJV is in no way being compromised. I know that there are probably some that are using some for other reasons but that does not lesson the stress they put on utilizing the KJV.

BJU is not a KJVO school, they are an OKJV school. They are not like PBI (Pensacola Bible Institute), which is a Ruckman School. Ruckman is biblically sound in most of his views but has no compassion for anyone who even slightly disagrees with him. They are concerned with biblical knowledge, and that is it, I have seen no stress on the truth of grace and ministering of the Holy Spirit. Anytime love and compassion comes up, "compromise" is decried.

I am sorry you feel that way about BJU. I believe your accusation is unfounded. I have never seen a faculty, staff, and students so zealous for the Word of God and concerned for the souls of man. I hope you are not reading what the secular reports have to say about BJU or just hearsay.

Again, I am sort of biased, but I happen to know many, many students and staff from BJU.

Love in Christ,

Jim

[George]

Thank you for posting that response Brother Jim. I was rather astoundeed at the claim made about Bob Jones without any kind of evidence of this being "fact."

I see absolutely nothing wroing with using Greek texts in classes. In fact, if a few more people would get involved in even a very basic understanding of the original languages they would benefit greatly.

The gentleman that started the thread on this subject asked for help and yet each time a suggestion has been made in this forum he has completely rejected the assistance offered. I am wondering what the intent of the original question was?

I had also asked abut the geographical location of the individual in order to focus on a specific area. I saw no response posted.

A question was asked, suggestions were made, the suggestions were rejected completely, end of comment for me.

Yours in Christ,
George Groce

[Raymond]

New England Baptist College http://www.newenglandbaptistcollege.com/

Crown College http://www.goforthecrown.com/

United States Marines http://www.marines.com/

I always thought that college was for people too scared to join The Marine Corp.

Semper Fidelis

Ray

[Jim]

Hoorah! But of course I won't call you what all Marines call each other, I kind of don't like being associated with the devil. But anyway that statement is good to go in my book!

Semper Fi,

Jim

[Moodee]

Jim Wrote:What is your basis for belief that BJU has slipped from using the KJV?

Is there something wrong with using Greek texts? (As long as you are focusing on Koine, not Classical)

I can vouch for BJU that the usage of the KJV is in no way being compromised. I know that there are probably some that are using some for other reasons but that does not lesson the stress they put on utilizing the KJV.

Jim

WELL I?ll stick to the facts? but let me say first if you go to BJU (several of my friends in ministry, and staff there now) in your Greek classes, you will use The Greek New Testament, edited by Kurt Aland, Bruce M. Metzger, et al., which is put out by the United Bible Society?it is not the TR?


Here we go...

Position of the Bible Department of Bob Jones University on the Scripture

[Bob Jones University Bible Department - Stewart Custer, Marshall Neal]

The dominating concern for all Bible-related courses, from English Bible to Theology and Ethics, in Bob Jones University is what the Bible teaches. This is of paramount importance to us because we believe in the verbal inspiration and absolute inerrancy of the Bible. We believe, as Fundamentalists have always believed, that this inspiration refers to the original manuscripts. "The record for whose inspiration we contend is the original record -- the autographs or parchments of Moses, David, Daniel, Matthew, Peter, or Paul as the case may be and not any particular translation or translations of them whatever" (The Fundamentals, "Inspiration of the Bible," p. 127).
When we teach the content of the Bible, we naturally study a passage in the Greek Testament. To aid the students in understanding that passage, we will take to class the King James Bible, which often gives an exact rendering of the Greek. Sometimes we will consult some other conservative translation, such as the American Standard Version of 1901 or the New American Standard Bible (not the liberal R[evised] S[tandard] V[ersion]), which at times gives the most accurate rendering of the Greek. We are always trying to help the students grasp the exact meaning of the original Greek text. There are a few passages in which the delicate shades of meaning in the Greek are missed by all English translations, in which cases we must explain from the Greek text itself those fine shades of meaning. We would not use a liberal paraphrase in class except as an illustration of a mistranslation, which we would at once correct by a true translation. We have no sympathy with any version of the Bible that is not faithful to the Greek text.
Because we believe in the inspiration of the original manuscripts of the Old and New Testaments, it is important that we have a Greek Testament that will be as close to the readings of the original as possible. Through the carelessness of scribes who copied manuscripts, many varying readings have crept into them. But God in His providence has preserved for us the original reading through the large number of manuscripts in existence that witness to the text of the New Testament. Today there are two Greek texts available. One is the Received Text, edited by [a] Roman Catholic scholar, Erasmus, in the sixteenth century and based on manuscripts of the late Middle Ages. It is often called the "Byzantine" or the "majority text." The other is the Greek Testament, edited by Westcott and Hort in the nineteenth century and based upon the manuscripts of the fourth century, usually called the "Alexandrian text." The King James Version was based upon the "Received Text"; the American Standard Version was based upon the text of Westcott and Hort. We do not believe that either of these texts is "liberal" or "conservative." Not only Erasmus but also Westcott and Hort were seeking to present a close copy of the original text. We are interested in which one is closer to the original text of the New Testament.
Because (1) the Alexandrian manuscripts are much older and closer to the time the originals were written, (2) a careful comparison of these manuscripts with those of the Middle Ages has convinced us that a more accurate and careful job of copying was done by the Alexandrian scribes, and (3) Erasmus had to work in haste and with limited resources, it is our conviction that these Alexandrian manuscripts, which were not known to Erasmus, are, as a rule, the more accurate manuscripts to follow. Therefore, along with the great majority of conservative scholars, we believe that the text based upon the Alexandrian manuscripts is, as a whole, superior to the text based upon manuscripts of the Middle Ages.
The portion of the New Testament that has any substantial variation between the various manuscripts is only about one word in a thousand. These variations in no way change the teaching of the New Testament on any doctrine. Therefore, we consider this not an issue of modernism versus conservatism but a matter of individual judgment on the part of Fundamental Christians. Christians should be free to choose and use either of these texts and still work together in harmony to teach and preach the Word of God to those who are without it.
Source: Bob Jones University. "Position of the Bible Department of Bob Jones University on the Scripture" (mimeograph). Office of the President, no date. Printed in Standing Without Apology: The History of Bob Jones University by Daniel L. Turner. Greenville, S.C.: Bob Jones University Press, c1997. Appendix D., p. 322-323.
In addition, "...both the Chancellor and the President issued statements to clarify the school's position." p. 244. And "in keeping with the University's commitment to balance, it is interesting to note that among the Bob Jones University graduate school Bible faculty, there are some who hold to the superiority of the Majority Text and others who hold to the Westcott and Hort Alexandrian Text. None of the Bible faculty accepts the Textus Receptus of Erasmus as superior to either the Majority or Alexandrian texts." p. 245.


Also worth considering...

The Bob Jones University Campus Store Website (http://www.bju.edu), as of 10/22/2001, offers for sale the following modern version Bibles (2 styles of the Amplified and 35 styles of the NASB) and books relating to the Bible text/version controversy, etc. Quoted descriptions from the BJU Website:

The Amplified Bible Black Bonded Leather (Zondervan) ZON0011T
The Amplified Bible Hardcover (Zondervan) ZON0013T
Life Application NASB Black bonded (Zondervan) ZON0043T
Life Application NASB Black Genuine (Zondervan) ZON0044T
Life Application NASB Burgundy Bonded (Zondervan) ZON0042T
Life Application NASB Burgundy Genuine (Zondervan) ZON0045T
Life Application NASB Hard Back (Zondervan) ZON0041T
NASB Classic Reference Bible (Zondervan) ZON0032T
NASB Classic Reference Bible Black Bonded (Zondervan) ZON0030T
NASB Classic Reference Bible Burgundy bonded (Zondervan) ZON0031T
NASB Classic Reference Black (Zondervan) ZON0029T
NASB Giant Print Black Genuine Leather (Foundation Publications) FOU0053T
NASB Giant Print Black Imitation Leather (Foundation Publications) FOU0046T
NASB Giant Print Burgundy Bonded Leather (Foundation Publications) FOU0049T
NASB Giant Print Burgundy Imitation Leather (Foundation Publications) FOU0042T
NASB Giant Print Forest Green (Foundation Publications) FOU0051T
NASB Personal Worker's New Testament Black (World Bible Publishers) WOR0077T
NASB Personal Worker's New Testament Burgundy (World Bible Publishers) WOR0078T
NASB Pocket Bible Black Bonded Leather (World Bible Publishers) WOR0097T
NASB Pocket Bible Black Bonded Leather with Zipper (World Bible Publishers) WOR0111T
NASB Pocket Bible Blue Bonded Leather (World Bible Publishers) WOR0108T
NASB Pocket Bible Burgundy Bonded Leather (World Bible Publishers) WOR0074T
NASB Pocket Bible Green Bonded Leather (World Bible Publishers) WOR0109T
NASB Side Column Reference Black (Foundation Publications) FOU0011T
NASB Side Column Reference Blue (Foundation Publications) FOU0010T
NASB Side Column Reference Burgundy (Foundation Publications) FOU0012T
NASB Slimline Reference Bible Black Bonded Leather (World Bible Publishers) WOR0047T
NASB Slimline Reference Bible Black Bonded Leather (World Bible Publishers) WOR0079T
NASB Slimline Reference Bible Burgundy Genuine Leather (World Bible Publishers) WOR0045T
NASB Slimline Reference Bible with Flap Black Bonded Leather (World Bible Publishers) WOR0075T
NASB Slimline Reference Bible with Flap Burgundy Bonded Leather (World Bible Publishers) WOR0076T
NASB Ultrathin Black Genuine Leather (Foundation Publications) FOU0039T
NASB Ultrathin Burgundy Bonded Leather (Foundation Publications) FOU0033T
NASB Ultrathin Burgundy Genuine Leather (Foundation Publications) FOU0037T
NASB Ultrathin Burgundy Genuine Leather (Foundation Publications) FOU0035T
The New Inductive Study Bible NASB Bond (Harvest House Publishers) HAR0074T
The New Inductive Study Bible NASB Hard (Harvest House Publishers) HAR0073T

The King James Only Controversy by James R. White. "Is your Bible translation reliable? Is it the real Bible? Answering those who claim that only the King James Version is the Word of God. The King James Only Controversy examines allegations that modern translators conspired to corrupt Scripture and lead believers away from true Christian faith. In a readable and responsible style, author James White traces the development of Bible translations old and new and investigates the difference between new versions and the Authorized version of 1611."
[Dr. James White is listed under "Critical consultants to NASB Update" on the Lockman Foundation Website.]

The King James Version Debate: A Plea for Realism by D.A. Carson. "The King James Version is superior to all modern English translations of the Bible:" so say many popularly written books and pamphlets. [This] is the first book-length refutation of this point of view written for both pastors and laymen. The author concisely explains the science of textual criticism since the main premise advanced by KJV proponents is the superiority of the Greek text on which it is based. After showing the problems with this premise, the author refutes the propositions that: (1) the KJV is the most accurate translation..."

Greek New Testament, 4th Rev. Ed. (United Bible Society). "This is the same text as the Nestle-Aland 27th ed." (this Greek text was listed as the required text for Elementary Greek II on ministerial check sheets for books.)
From the Mind of God to the Mind of Man. James B. Williams, editor. "Many volumes on this subject of manuscripts and translations produce more heat than light. Happily, here is a book that is filled with light and little heat." Dr. Ernest Pickering, Baptist World Mission. "This collection of essays presents the true historical and biblical facts regarding the text, transmission, and translation of Scripture in layman's terms."

Some of those books listed above...
From the Mind of God to the Mind of Man does not champion the KJV or the TR? buy a copy and you?ll see?it is endorsed by Bju and is reflective of their stance on the Bible issue and if you want to read about another book being offered through a BJU graduate and endorsed by the President go to

http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/PDF_Fil...ersity.pdf

[Jim]

Will answer accordingly in due time. I am speaking to Dr. Jim Berg on this one you have submitted.

BTW, Moodee, where did/do you attend?

Jim

[Moodee]

I attended and received my degree at Pensacola Christian College...

...a B.A. in Pastoral Ministries... however... i know that for certain people that throws up panic signals or a quick signal because of the "strained" relationship (understatement) between the schools... and particularly PCC has not been to cordial about discussing the Bible issue with BJU -----

all that set aside... again a few of my close friends attend there, a pastor friend of mine attended, a previous roomate of mine from PCC transferred there a year ago and so i keep in contact with some of those brothers in Christ...

Jim just so you understand... I greatly appreciate the work of
God going on at BJU and love many there...

and not to sound sarcastic- i actually considered going there while in PCC just to have in my mind a more "balanced" view of the Bible issue- but that isn't relevant o this issue-- anyhow -- i hope this info is helpful...

[Jim]

Very Helpful.

I have nothing against PCC. As a matter of fact, one of the faculty at PTS is a graduate of BJU, Dr. Joel Porcher.

I have had many a discussion with people from PCC. While I agree with their doctrinal base wholeheartedly, I noticed that anytime a BJU student and PCC student got together, there was a pushed pursuit of the KJV debate by the PCC student.

If the doctrinal statement you posted earlier is in fact still enforced and agreed by the staff, which it probably will be, I must admit that I do not agree with it.

What I do not agree with is the fact that the Alexandrian texts are the accurate ones. I emailed Dr. Berg letting him know this. I suppose I should have investigated a little harder, but it does not change my opinion of the school. I have seen more compassionate scholars come from that school more than any other I can tell you, but I have to admit again, I am a little limited on who all I see.

I will also tell you this. I have not seen any heresy come from any pulpit preached from there. It is accurate, intelligent, and more important, guided by the Holy Spirit.

This is interesting. I of course, would still recommend BJU or PCC to anyone, but I would like to investigate further.

This has actually inspired me to read a little on the Universal Church and the Local Church of which I will start another topic on soon.

Thanks Moodee,

Love in Christ,

Jim

[George]

If someone is in the area and has an interest there is a brand new Baptist Bible college that only just opened in Hot Springs, Arkansas. It is Champion Baptist College and Institute. The following is the link to the web site:

http://www.championbaptist.com/

Champion was founded by Dr. Eric Capaci of Gospel Light Baptist Church in Hot Springs. Dr. Capaci is of the Hyles-Anderson, Sword of The Lord camp and is an amazing preacher of God's Word. It has been my distinct pleasure to be able to hear him preach in person on a number of occasions.

If anyone has an interest in learning more about Gospel Light and Dr. Capaci, the following is the link to that web site:

http://www.gospellight.org/

On this site you can also listen to tapes of some of Dr. Capaci's sermons. Dr. is very dedicated to the ministry of Reformers Unanimous. It is at Reformers functions in Rockford Illinois that I have had the pleasure of meeting him. He is one of the most dynamic preachers I have ever heard.

Yours in Christ,
George Groce