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Sun May 15, 2005 , 12:08 AM

I became a Saint when I was 11. Ole Pope had nothing to say about that one either.

**George** · Sun May 15, 2005 , 02:03 AM

I wonder, can anyone tell me, does the Roman Catholic Church attempt to support this things about "saints" by some part of the Bible as they do the appointment of the pope? I have wondered about that.

I do know that an incredible amount of things that the Roman Catholic church does have no bible basis whatsoever and are merely traditions that have beeen installed by men.

I just don't understand how people can be deceived in this way. of ocurse I remember somw time back talking to some Catholic folks about Jesus, the Church and things of that nature. They asked me what Church I attended. When I told them First Baptist they asked if that Church wasn't really strict.

I suppose it is when I consider that the Roman Catholics I know of drink openly (including priests), smoke quite heavily, gamble (in the Church buildings of all places0, and do other such things that we as fundamental Baptists would not do.

Yours in Christ,
George Groce

john45 · (This post was last modified: Mon May 16, 2005 10:10 AM by john45.)

Good points brothers. I became a saint when I was 18 years of age, and a child of God too!

I don't know, this whole sainthood thing seems to elevate men and push our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into the background. Anytime you put more emphasis on men, than on the Son of the living God you are treading on thin ice in my opinion.

Without HIM we are nothing!

Mon May 16, 2005 , 08:26 AM

What a shame if a man is elected a saint by the cardinals and still burns in Hell as we speak. What are some men willing to give in exchange for their souls? He might be elected a saint now or later but unless he knew Jesus, ole pope is in Hell right now.

Hugh Pyle had an excellent article in Sword a couple weeks ago titled "What the Pope Now Knows." Among other things, the pope now knows (and I liked this one the best) He IS NOT the holy father! He now knows there is but one mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus; he now knows that Mary IS NOT a co-redeemer nor is there any other redeemer besides Jesus Christ. Dr. Pyle went on to list a few other things the pope now knows, including the fact that there is no purgatory. Great article, really something for catholics and everyone to think about. Is the pope in Hell right now? He is if he never accepted Jesus as his Saviour!

Mon Jun 13, 2005 , 07:27 AM

What is this about if a person's loved one is in "purgatory" or perhaps even Hell, catholics believe their loved one can be prayed out for a certain price?

**George** · Mon Jun 13, 2005 , 01:47 PM

Please someone correct me if I am wrong but my understanding of that bit of milarkey is that the origin was a method of raising funds for the construction of St. Peter's in Rome.

One of the things that Martin Luther addressed in his Reformation was the gathering of funds from the poor German peasants and the sending of those funds to Rome when the Germans needed the funds there in order to help with the support of the poor.

I have been told that the Mormons actually practice a similar thing. In a conversation with a fellow Church person some time ago I was told that the Mormons will tell their members that if they go back into their "books" and make a contribution of 10 percent of a deceased person's estate, that person will be released from hell. That is quite a bit different from purgatory. Their attitude is that it is possible to buy a person directly our of hell.

Quite interesting, don't you think?

Last night on the History Channel there was a program about Hell and writings and attitudes about hell over the centuries. For some strange reason when the History Channel does programming like this they have a Catholic priest as a commentator. During the program yesterday evening this Catholic priest actually stated the following, "We don't know who goes to heaven and who goes to hell"

Excuse me??? That may explain quite a bit right there. Here is a man that is supposed to be responsible for the spiritual well-being af a group of people, says that he believes in Jesus and yet quite obviously does not believe Jesus. If this priest actually believed Jesus he would believe the Bible and he would have no difficulty at all in determing who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.

Yours in Christ,
George Groce

***Jim*** · Mon Jun 13, 2005 , 02:27 PM

Ooh fellas, ya'll sendin' shivers up my spine.

I don't like to even think about the catholic church's doctrine. But I fear we will have no choice soon as she will be a major adversary in christian warfare.

Our church is having Dr. Bob Shelton preaching a special sermon on the pope and how he(the pope) is concerned with prophecy this coming Sunday morning and evening.

I will take notes and post them as I get them. He is the closest I have seen when it comes to end times biblical prophecy. You can check out his site at:

http://www.bobshelton.org

It may have not been updated in a while, but at the very least I highly recommend his book entitled, "God's Prophetic Blueprint"

Love in Christ,

Jim

**George** · Mon Jun 13, 2005 , 03:04 PM

Quote:I will take notes and post them as I get them.

Ah Brother Jim, I shall look forward to this posting. I may be naive or it is probably just that I don't spend any amount of time in Catholic doctrine. Because of that I am not aware of the Pope's dabbling in prophecy.

I have not taken the poll on this site because I was just not aware that the Pope in involved in such things. Since it appears that he is, he is definitely a false prophet. According to my Bible, God quit sending prophets to us some time ago.

Yours in Christ,
George Groce

CJEN · Fri Nov 18, 2005 , 02:25 PM

George Wrote:If this priest actually believed Jesus he would believe the Bible and he would have no difficulty at all in determing who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.

No one can know the state of another person's soul. That judgement is reserved for God ALONE. If we were able to know the state of another's soul, or even that we are absolutely guaranteed a seat in Heaven, what would be the purpose of judgement at our deaths? There would not be a need for one if our destiny is already decided for us.

Philippians 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Why would St. Paul say that we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling if our salvation was assured by one single event? It doesn't make sense.

Salvation is a process, not a one time event.

CJEN · Fri Nov 18, 2005 , 02:27 PM

Anonymous Wrote:What is this about if a person's loved one is in "purgatory" or perhaps even Hell, catholics believe their loved one can be prayed out for a certain price?

Catholics do not believe that one can be prayed out of Hell or purgatory. After death there are two destinations -- Heaven and Hell. Purgatory is merely the washroom for Heaven. After all, no one dies perfect. We must be cleansed of our last remnants of sin. It is God's final act of mercy in our lives, even though it occurs after we die. We do not even know how long someone is in purgatory. It may be a an instanateous process for all we know.

***Jim*** · Fri Nov 18, 2005 , 02:28 PM

Please, share with us that process.......

I would dearly love to hear this one....

***Jim*** · Fri Nov 18, 2005 , 02:28 PM

Now show me in the bible where purgatory exists.....

Truly the words of someone who listens to Priests and doesn't read their bible.....

CJEN · Fri Nov 18, 2005 , 02:39 PM

Anonymous Wrote:He now knows there is but one mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus

Amen. However, don't we all act as mediators when we pray for one another? Isn't asking a saint or Mary to pray for us the same thing?

Quote:he now knows that Mary IS NOT a co-redeemer nor is there any other redeemer besides Jesus Christ

The title co-remdremtrix given to Mary does not signify that she is equal to Christ in any way. What is does signify is that she played somewhat of a role in our salvation. She is not the means of our salvation, that role is reserved for Jesus. However, had Mary not cooperated with God and shirked her responsibility to raise Jesus, where would we be?

Quote:Dr. Pyle went on to list a few other things the pope now knows, including the fact that there is no purgatory.

Again, there better be a Purgatory. I don't know anyone who when they die is as pure as Jesus. To say that the blood Christ covers up your sin is a bad analogy. If that is the case, then you are still sinful when you enter Heaven and we all know that can not be. We must be completely pure to enter Heaven or even be in the presence of God. So, how does that happen...through purgation.

Quote:Is the pope in Hell right now? He is if he never accepted Jesus as his Saviour!

I don't know if he is in Hell. I doubt that he is. But again, we can not know for sure. Again, that judgement is reserved for God alone.

CJEN · Fri Nov 18, 2005 , 02:40 PM

Jim Wrote:Now show me in the bible where purgatory exists.....

Truly the words of someone who listens to Priests and doesn't read their bible.....

Along those same lines....show me where it says it does not exist.

I can not show you the exact word Purgatory. But you can not show me the exact word Trinity either. Yet, we all accept the Trinity.

***Jim*** · Fri Nov 18, 2005 , 02:44 PM

Quote:Purgatory is merely the washroom for Heaven.

This doesn't sound absurd to you?

Quote:After all, no one dies perfect.

Jesus Christ did. But then again, Catholics believe Mary did too. Ever hear of the Immaculate Conception?

Quote:We must be cleansed of our last remnants of sin.

Why? If I remember correctly the wages of sin is death. Christ took away the penalty of those who repent and are washed forever more. While we may yet remain sinning, we are no longer under the bondage of enternal judgement by that sin. Christ took that upon himself. If you believe that unrepented sin condemns or sends somone somwhere other than heaven or hell, then what exactly do you think Christ did on the cross? When we leave these bodies, sin no longer remains with us. If it did, how could we be present with the Lord?

Quote:No one can know the state of another person's soul. That judgement is reserved for God ALONE.

Not necessarily true. While the judgement itself is for God alone, He would not given us if Matt. 7:19,20, to see what people are like:

7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Quote:Heaven, what would be the purpose of judgement at our deaths?

I can only assume you are referring to the judgement seat of Christ where:

1 Cor. 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Jim