This particular topic has been open for debate for a long time. What is so debateable about it?

The inquisition has been given an "official" start time of around 1227-1232 A.D. by Gregory IX. It is called the "Papal Inquisition".

This task of the inquisition was given to Dominicans and Franciscans.

This inquisition almost burned out if it weren't for the Protestants. It helped revive the "Reconstituted Inquisition" which eventually led way to the horiffic "Spanish Inquisition".

The first generally accepted martyr of the Inquisition series was probably the Cathars.

The last official death of the Inquisition was a schoolmaster, Cayetano Ripoll, who was garroted to death for allegedly teaching Deist principles in 1826.

Over this "official" (I say official, because the catholic church and it's affiliates had been burning and torturing people since 529.) timeline of almost exactly 600 years, hundreds of thousands died, simply because they would not adhere to the Church's "authority".

One of the greatest Inquisitors, or may I say "infamous", was Tomas Tourquemada.

A few interesting notes on the inquisition are this:

1) In 1633, Galileo was excommuncated and imprisoned for giving proof that the earth was not the center of our solar system, but the sun. It is too bad that he was not pardoned until 1992 by Pope John Paul II. A little late, huh?

2)

3)

I simply want to know why the "Catholic Church" Offically decreed in many written documents, the death of so many? Why?

I would like a source for your assertions. Are they from Catholic sources or are they more polemics? If you'd like to discuss the Inquisition, I'd be happy to give you the Catholic position with evidence. Are you familiar with the term 'Black Legend'?

Are you familiar with the political term "spin." It takes the truth and warps it out of recognition. For examples see "Tony Blair."

The protestants, according to recent claims, dreamt up the Inquisition in order to develop bad feeling towrd the Catholics. If that is true then they did an incredible job! However, the weight of evidence is in favour of the protestants. (Of course, being a Baptist I am not a protestant, as we were never part of the Catholic church...another day we'll get that one)

I believe the spin is happening in our day. The Catholics, like the Muslims, are trying to re-write history in order to develop bad feeling toward independent churches. It all works toward the one world church.

If the inquisition never took place, which a document of some 700+ pages asserts which was published about the same time as the Popes apology in 2004, for what did the pope apologise? Did he apologise for something that never took place? If so it was a purely political move and a lie. If he did apologise for something that actually happen then how can any good catholic deny it happened?

MNW

Ron, can I ask you a question?

How is it you can staunchly believe in something almost 2000 years ago in written history as undisputed fact(I do not refer to scripture here, but your assertions on the "Early Church Fathers"), yet believe something that ended only 150 years ago, and is written by many eye-witness accounts, and much documentation, as a "fabricated lie"?

You sure are selective about your history and what is true and what is not.

I would think an assertion such as this would require evidence. The funny thing is that the OPPOSITE is the truth. The preponderence of evidence shows that the Inquisition was FAR from what Protestant polemics claimed it to be. Protestant and secular scholars alike say that we are only NOW living in the golden age of Inquisition study and what they are finding is a very different picture than had been painted by the polemical fiction of people like Maracle, Boettner, and Lea. This is fact and it ain't coming from Catholic sources, but parties with no vested interest in Catholic things. All I want is a simple admission from a Catholic source which corroborates the number of deaths, tortures, and rapacious behavior of those in the Inquisitional process. Providing 'evidence' from anti-Catholics , as i'd hope you'd agree, is not objective.

One can only revise history if an agenda exists. Non-catholic scholars have no such agenda and are just as stunned with the most recent information they're uncovering as anyone. You accuse the Church of much but provide no evidence, but rather let your bias and bigotry guide you--do you seek truth or do you seek something less?

Once again, you really need to read my post. Nowhere did I deny the Inquisition took place, although your misunderstanding of just what the Inquisition was and what it truly was, are obviously different things. There were 3 distinct PERIODS of Inquisition, not a single Inquisition. It was established because mobs were burning alleged heretics without trials--Pope Gregory established a mode of jurisprudence to eliminate this mob rule and it only applied to baptized Catholics. This info is easily verifiable, guest. Read the Pope's apology, guest. It does not apologize for the Inquisition. In fact, John Paul REVIVED the office of Inquisition (called now Congregation for Doctrine of The Faith). What he apologized for was, 'the part that each of us with his or her behaviors has played in such evils thus contributing to disrupting the face of the church.' He apologized for the sins of individual persons, not for the Inquisition. This is simple and obvious if you just do the legwork and find the Pope's actual words, guest.
God Bless.

Ron

That is the second time you have addressed us as being polemic. So my answer to this is, 'Show me anything at all, anywhere at all, that I quoted that gave you any indication that what I gave was anythign other than objective fact on the inquisition.

Also, by the way, Black Legend applies specifically to the "Spanish" Inquisition. And what difference does it make how they were tortured? It is simply a fact that they were tortured for their belief in Christ Jesus.

And I gave objective fact on the entire inquisition period, not just the Spanish.

And to you answer your question, I cite all of my sources from the catholic encyclopedia itself or catholic sources.

One need look no further than the catholic church itself, and it's own documents to show the errors of it's ways.

Jim, it's simple. The recency of information is irrelevant if it is bad information. You believe in the Inquisition Myth because you want to, not because you've done any research on it. If you had, you'd know exactly what scholarship says and what it's based on. Boettner, Lea, and Maracle did no research and they admit it. They merely found assertions from earlier polemics and perpetuated it because it fit their agenda of bashing the Church.

A little critical thinking is in order here. Put 2 and 2 together here, Jim:

A. In the 1500's the printing press was invented and all of a sudden, we see pamphlets about the attrocities of the Inquisition, yet we see nothing about these accusations before, despite the Inquistion existing in some form, for 300 years already. Why not?

B. Every case that passed through the Inquisition has its own file. These files were not available to scholars until recently. How can the outrageous numbers of deaths, torture, and misdeeds cited by Protestant (and Catholic) sources be credible without analysis of these files? These files report that an average of 2% of all convicted were executed and that 10-11% were tortured. Jim, the hard evidence just doesn't add up to the assertion of 'hundreds of thousands' killed. Spin is only possible if the facts are in dispute. They no longer are in this case.

C. Who has a vested interest in keeping this misinformation alive? Those who would denigrate the Church, of course. A lie told often enough has become gospel for these people. When the legend is more sensational than the truth, they print the legend. Run a Google search on 'Black Legend' and tell me what you find, Jim. While it won't change your already made up mind, it will give you a taste of what i mean.

A study done in 1975 by Danish historians of 50,000 cases in the Spanish Inquisition found that 1.8% were given death sentences. The quote from the findings is this:

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, Jim...God Bless.

Ron

The Catholic Encyclopedia is not a Church document, Jim. It is granted an imprimatur but is not the final authority on the Inquisition or any other issue. Not to mention the Catholic Encyclopedia was written in 1915. Surely the evidence which became available in the last decade is not accounted for, Jim.

So the statement you made about 'hundreds of thousands' killed by the Inquisition is from the Catholic Encyclopedia? Maybe i'm missing it but I don't see that assertion made. God Bless.

Ron

Spoken like a typical 20th century non-Catholic. The Inquisition must be looked at in the context of the times, not from our haughty 20th century glasses. In the 13th century in England, people were disemboweled for stealing a pig. They were put to death for destroying public shrubbery. I don't disagree that torture is never OK but in looking at the Inquisition, scholarship pronounces it a step forward in jurisprudence for the time and 'enlightened' compared to the civil courts of the day. The final point is that NONE of this has anything to do with the veracity of the teachings of the Church.

And no, they were not tortured for their belief in Christ, Jim. Do your homework. Do you really want to assert that the Cathars were Christians? Would 'Bible believing Christians':

1. Consider Yahweh an evil god since he created matter, which is objectively evil?

2. Consider marriage an abomination worse than fornication, adultery, or sodomy?

3. Consider a woman who died pregnant or in childbirth to be eternally damned but that homosexual sex was ok since it wasn't open to life?

4. Deny the Crucifixion, Incarnation, and Resurrection?

5. Practice abortion and consider it objectively good?

6. Deny the humanity AND divinity of Christ?

7. Inflict a ceremony as barbaric as their 'Endura', which amounted to murder, on children? These studies i cite conclude that more people were put to death in this ceremony than were put to death in the entire Inquistional time periods.

8. Believe in reincarnation?

9. Believed that the state had NO rights to maintain order, justice, or authority? They refused to pay taxes and denied societal order.

10. Practiced strict vegetarianism because they believed that souls transmigrated into animals?

The Cathars were a threat to Christianity AND the European societal order. Protestants, Fundamentalists, and Catholics alike agree that this heresy was a direct threat to all that was necessary to preservation of society.

I've already shown tangible numbers from Catholic and non-Catholic sources, Jim. You have not done the same in providing a Catholic source that supports your claims. Seems the preponderence of evidence disputes your assertions.
God Bless.

Ron

Jim, I did not see any rules pertaining to posting links/articles so if this violates one, I apologize. Check this bit out with regard to the Inquisitions just so you see the wide array of those who concur. God Bless.

Ron

http://www.biblia.com/christianity/spanish.htm#Myth

And it would be sad indeed if you do not believe that ancient information applies to those same rules.

That's funny, the pope himself even believed in it, which not only debunks you claim that it is a myth, which answers your other question of where you wanted to know where you stated that you did not believe it ever happened, but admits to the certainty of it.

Yep, you're right, I am an unlearned ignorant fool, who doesn't provide you with any facts at all.

Actually, try and rephrase that: "The assertions of the catholic church are merely attempts to indoctrinate and perpetuate the blind, who would jump at the church's command upon a moments notice". What's sad is that you actually believe what you state.

Uhhh....you answered your own question.

That's a good one!

And I am quite sure that Hitler would have had the exact number we came up with the number of holocaust victims he had tortured and executed. Yeah...right.

Who is the one not using common sense, or putting 2&2 together now?

If it were misinformation I would agree, but it is known fact. I love the fact that a member of the church that killed and tortured so many people is trying to argue against documented historical fact. What is even sadder, is that nobody needs to try denigrate the catholic church, it does a well enough job itself.

You know what the saddest thing about this is?

For arguments sake, How about saying I am completely wrong and none of the "atrocities" ever happened? How does the catholic church justify itself, for ANY reason, to execute people on matters of religion, whether they were tortured or not?

You are completely missing the point here. Aside from the fact that I believe your information solely the source of which is not personal study, but indoctrination of behalf of your church, you are changing the whole point.

It is a fact that the catholic church killed poeple for the sake of "heresy". why?

I couldn't receive a greater compliment.

Your are right, we might have a tendency to look through rose-colored glasses, not haughty. In these times of political correctness, we probably underestimate the atrocities of the catholic church over the years.

Really, where does it say this? And if it did happen, does that mean it was ok for the catholic churhc to do what they did?

Step forward? Enlightened? Surely ye jest.

What doesn't? The persecution of so many people who did not agree with the church?

Ummm. yes, the christans were too, tortured for their belief.

You could have saved yourself tired fingers reiterating what I already knew about the Cathars. Please show where I specifically stated that Cathars were christian.

You need to realize that nobody was immune from the claws of the catholic church during all of those years. Anybody, for any reason, could be taken, persecuted, tortured, or killed, for whatever reason the catholic church wanted. How else could they have gotten so rich? Do some research yourself for once, outside of the catholic church, and find out what happened to the peoples belongings that they tortured. Ever hear of the Knights Templar?

Nobody has the true numbers of how many people were persecuted by that church. I am sure it is non-quantifiable at this point.

Ron, give me proof that the inquisition never existed.

Sound Familiar?

I open a topic about the Inquisition and I get an argument pertaining numbers.