Ok bible says train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will NOT depart from it.

Ok when a child grow up in a home where Dad left and Mom was the abuser and all grew up in atomphere of knowing they were no good and unlovable. will they ever believe Jesus truly love them as much as he love everyone else.

After all the kids from that home have to depart from the way they were trained to believe that but bible says they will not.

Good question. I think the answer lies in the interprative issue of a proverb. What I mean is that a proverb is presented as a short, pithy, and rememberable truth. But they are also presented as principles NOT promises. Proverbs deal in generalities not specifics. This is important. This verse in particular should be read as a general principle since it is communicating a general truth. In that way, children growing up in a Christian home generally will grow up godly. But not always. In the same way, children growing up in a broken home generally take after their parents. But not always. Proverbs are not meant to communicate promises, but principles to live by.

This is similar to descriptive truth vs. prescriptive truth in history literature. What is described is not always prescribed (i.e. David having more than 1 wife is described but not prescribed).

That is my view on the matter, anyways. I hope that helps. I am sure other men on this forum have more insight to add to help in this matter. I am interested in their take on this issue as well.

As Christs power knows no bounds, we must have faith. If God, acording to John 6:44 calls this person to repentance, then yes, they most certainly will understand God's love. We will almost always be tormented by our past, and there will never be a complete escape from it's accusations and wounds, but Jesus Christ can heal those wounds, even if the scars are big.

When the bible talks about training up a child in the way he should go, it speaks of a parent's responsibility to their children through the commandment of God to raise them to fear the Lord. If this is done biblically, then they are promised that they will not depart from it. This does not mean that they will never be wayward, or choose a life of destruction, but that they will never forget the instruction of their parents, regardless of their present state or situation.

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not into thine own understanding. In all ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

This scripture alone is a promise from God that he loves us. He will chasten us because he loves us(Heb 12:6), and he will walk with us because he loves us. (Psalm 23)

Don't ever forget that.

It takes faith to believe.

Love in Christ,

Jim

Excellent advice, Jim.

Someone such as myself, who accepted Christ at a young age, can also struggle with the concept of God's love. It is not limited to those who have had a difficult childhood. The key is go to the Scriptures and soak in the truth of God's love. The Holy Spirit opens our hearts to the Word of God. There is a big difference between head and heart knowledge, too. In example, I accepted Christ at age 5 or 6, so I knew God loved me. However, it was not until age 19 when I was in Bible college that the truth of God's unconditional love reached my heart. I had been living my Christian life as if God's love for me depended on my faithfulness in my walk. But that's not true! The moment I accepted Christ, the Lord loved me infinitely! Though my fellowship with the Lord depends on my faithfulness and confessing my sin, His love never changes. Those "ah ha" moments are wonderful.

This post was last modified: Mon Apr 14, 2008 09:35 PM by Nate.

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Prov 22:6 (KJV)

I find many who will quickly fault the parent or parents if a child goes wrong, that its never the child's fault.

But if that were true, them most children who go the way of the devil, it would not be their fault, but their parents fault, but the Bible is clear, no one has an excuse, that is we each have to take responsibility for self.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:20 (KJV)

No one will have an excuse to give unto Jesus.

We have to take responsiblity for our self becasue;

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:27 (KJV)

We all will face judgment.

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 5:29 (KJV)

Pastor Jerry said:

But if that were true, them most children who go the way of the devil, it would not be their fault, but their parents fault, but the Bible is clear, no one has an excuse, that is we each have to take responsibility for self.

Isn't that the brutal truth. We all know that every human being has a soul.

Yes its truth, and for some I suppose its the brutal truth, which many do not want to hear it. I suppose that is one reason we have those feel good pastors and churches and they're feeling up quite fast.

But in stating that we only answer for ourselves, that does not take the responsibility off of our backs to be sure and raise our children in the ways of our Lord.

At 62 I can look back and see many mistakes the wife and I made.

May the Lord Bless,
Jerry

Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful
works to the children of men! Psalms 107:31

Preach it Jerry

It does come down to the individual and choice. I know a man who was abused severely physically and sexually, had to eat spoiled food etc. you get the picture. I witnessed to him for several weeks and finally challenged him to bring his argumentative spirit to Church and prove the Pastor wrong. He came and got saved. Today he is a Deputy District Attorney, married a wonderful Christian lady. He made a choice to respond to God's Word.

I to made that choice. I was never beat on or molested but I did grow up in an alcoholic home and was heavy drinker myself, had no self esteem... etc. I got saved and my life changed and still changes as I grow.

Then, I know those who grew up in good Bible believeing/teaching homes and they are older now and are off in terrible sin.

I believe it comes down to those who love God. They may make mistakes and even spend long times backslidden. Again, I know a man who spent 14 years running from God, got right, and is one of the most faithful Christians I know. He is old and has not departed from it.

Tim

Amen, its quite amazing at the excuse people will come up with for doing many bad things. And there is no doubt in my mind, those who will not take responsibility for their sins cannot be saved. For such a person that short period of time before death must be horrible, for during that time doubt must flood their mind completely.

I must say, in my time those who I've been near at death & or close to the end of their life, those who were solid Christians who loved church and attended church were all peaceful, but those who claimed to be Christians but never had time in this life to attend church were very restless. I think the reason was they did not have that "blessed hope."

May the Lord bless,
Jerry

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Titus 2:13 (KJV)

The question was posed in the original post on this topic as to whether or not that individual will ever experience or know the real love of Christ. Let me tell you about my own experience in this area.

My father was career Navy having served for 30 years. It seemed to me he was always gone. He was not home to go to my little league games, he was not home to go to my band concerts, I really did not even know him that well.

After dad got out of the Navy he became an electronics technician and went to work for Boeing. We relocated from the east coast to the west. Dad had a regular Monday through Friday job with decent hours. It was during that time I should have been able to start developing a real relationship with my dad.

However when he was 50 he suffered what is commonly known as a massive stroke. He had severe hardening of the arteries throughout 95% of his body. The stroke left him incapacitated and affected his speech, memory and mobility. So the opportunity to experience the love of my father was taken from me. I did not know the love of a father during most of my life until a time about 5 years ago that still leaves me with goose bumps and chills.

A friend gave me a book by Charles Stanley titled, "Experiencing love." It is a 31 day journey through parts of the Bible explaining how to experience fully God's love for us. Normally I would not pay any attention to anything Dr.Charles Stanley has to say. I had it said to me one time that he is one of the best fundamental preachers of today. He is not a fundamentalist! He uses the NIV! So the very first thing I did was to get out a sheet of Avery address labels and paste from the King James Bible the verses he quotes in the book .

It was on the fourth or fifth day of the study Dr. Stanley was speaking of his childhood. His experience was much like mine. I found myself really paying attention to what he had to say. It was while reading through this particular day in the study that I actually felt God put His arm around me. I felt Him placing his arm around my right shoulder and comforting me. It was absolutely amazing. I finally had someone to explain to me about what God's love for His children is all about. Not only that, it was someone who had experienced almost exactly what I did.

It is so easy for people to say, "I understand what you are going through." That is a pile of baloney and a lie from the pit of Hell. If a person has not experienced what I have there is no way they can understand or even begin to understand what I have experienced. The only person who ever was able to understand fully what we are going through is the man, Jesus Christ. In fact this is addressed in the Bible:

(2Co 1:4) Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. (Emphasis mine)

What is said here is that I can only comfort a person or that person can only comfort me to the extent God has comforted us. If a person has not gone through something and been comforted of God they cannot even begin to fathom what the other is going through. It is for that reason I believe I did not truly know the extent of God's love for me until just a few short years ago. I had not known another man who had gone through the same thing I had. Even though I have an amount of disdain for Dr. Stanley I shall not forget that it was his writing and his book that allowed me to fully experience the love of God.

So the answer to the question is yes, that person can experience the love and a full relationship with the Lord. All it takes is a person who has experienced the same thing to share that experience and the comfort wherewith they were comforted of God.

In Christ,
George

George, If a father don't take their son or daughter to all the games, does that in itself make them a bad father? I believe that is just a tradition man has started that all fathers ought to do. This modern day time of parents spending so much time of taking their children to and setting and watching games everyday is rightly new to the family setting.

My father never played games with me, nor none of that stuff, but he put clothes on my back, food on the table, shelter over my head and when he was not at work, his job & or working on our small farm he was somewhere close by.

Right on, those who say they know what your going thru, if they have not walked in those shoes, they have no idea how it is or what its like, but Jesus does!

A direct answer to the question is, anyone can experience the full love of Christ, for its whosoever will, confess, submit, accept.

May God Bless,
Jerry

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.[/i]
John 3:15-16 (KJV)

Yes... "Preach it" Pastor Jerry. That is why we have good, fundamental... Bible-believing preachers that bring us the Word of God! Without apology... might I add.

Romans 10:14... How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? "Israel Needs the Gospel" King James Bible

Brother George, your testimony is quite amazing. In fact, you lived a life similar to my former husband and his family. My former BIL (my son is named after him) grew up without his dad being around. His mother did much volunteer work. They were raised by a nanny from a young age. Dolly... I am told, was a beautiful black woman. She was a mom to the 3 children, growing up. My former FIL was a captain in the USA Navy. After he retired... he started his own business in electronics. My former BIL decided that he wanted to live the life of his dad. He graduated from college in Aerospace Technology. He trained in Beeville, TX. He was at Top Gun. He was in Grenada, Lebanon, and Desert Storm 1. He flew the A-7 Corsair in Storm 1. It was the first plane in to bomb Baghdad. After that, he flew the FA-18 Fighter-Attack plane.

Ironically, (and, I don't believe in that...haha) my other BIL (hubby's younger brother) was a USA Marine at the same time. He was 18, and was made Sergeant, due to cambat duty in Iraq. The ground troops went in prior to the Navy. Of course, I did not know that at the time. And, he also is recovering from alcoholism. Anyway, I was married to my first husband... raising a baby and helping to raise a step-daughter. My former BIL was forced back to the states (by his dad)... about 5 years ago from Kuwait. He trained pilots in Kuwait for Boeing. Both, my former husband and BIL have drinking problems. Although, my son told me that his dad quit. I dunno.

Well... as it is said, "Troubled people marry troubled people"... I too, was heading down the road of alcoholism. It was getting serious. After this incident with my brother... I found out (sheepishly, through my mom) that my dad had an alcohol problem, as well. I never knew. It wasn't/isn't uncommon in my area for people to "Hit the bottle." In fact... I grew up thinking it was normal. It wasn't until my former SIL came into my life, and told me about the program of Al-Anon. It was in those rooms that I admitted to having a drinking problem, too. That took many years, btw.

Since, the lost will not be saved and cannot be saved unless someone prays for them. I dunno. I do know this. A wonderful black women (who is in heaven, now) administered to my spiritual needs. She passed on from Pancreatic Cancer. I called her my "Black Grandma." We worked together... and, she was a TRUE friend. In fact, her son told us (teachers and staff... in the Inner-City of Cleveland) that before she went home to be with the Lord... the last word out of her mouth was "Jesus." This was at the same time that my medical illness hit me. Again, I don't believe this to be "ironic." Our God (the Lord Jesus Christ) is the Great Physician and a Miracle Worker! He is a "Miracle!" Thank you for sharing Brother George. I don't believe that was "ironic" either. God bless all.

In Christ Jesus ~

Molly

This post was last modified: Fri Apr 10, 2009 01:13 PM by candlelight.

Deputydog said:

I to made that choice. I was never beat on or molested but I did grow up in an alcoholic home and was heavy drinker myself, had no self esteem... etc. I got saved and my life changed and still changes as I grow.


I never knew this, until now, Tim. It seems that a few of us here have quite a bit in common. Maybe, I will start a thread on this "sin" called alcoholism. Hopefully and prayfully it won't get closed. People need to hear the truth! They also need to understand... that the KJ Bible says "No" to strong drink. Amen. Brother George posted about Christian women who believe it is alright to drink alcohol? Ummm, "No." That doesn't work into God's plan for His kids. It is not right to glorify this sin (or any other sin)... just warn people about it, as we know.

Proverbs 23:31-32...31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. King James Bible

Not by any means. My dad provided shelter, clothing and food but an interpersonal relationship as that of a father and son was absent.

As with candlelight's last post my dad was an alcoholic. Both that and a heavy smoker. I grew up thinking that was normal behaviour. So when a young adult I started drinking and it got worse and worse then I ended up in drugs. Fortunately when I was quite young I attended a First Baptist Church so when my life got completely unmanageable I knew immediately where to turn for help.

Do those things make him a bad father? Not by any means, just an absent father. You see my Heavenly Father is there for me at all times. He is good to me even when I don't think He is. he has given me everything I need and a lot of the things I want. And...I know now first hand the love of a Father.

In Christ,
George

Alright... now the tears are flowing. That is a great thing! God wants our tears. They bring us ever closer to Him. The number of children in this world that are being raised in alcoholic homes is unreal. Some don't know that it is NOT normal. It is also very much prevelant in affluent communities. When one thinks of a drunk... they think of a homeless person. No one is immune to this sin. We are all human.

2 Timothy 1:4... Greatly desiring to see thee, being mindful of thy tears, that I may be filled with joy; "Be strong in Grace" King James Bible

This post was last modified: Fri Apr 10, 2009 01:24 PM by candlelight.