I have the opportunity to go to a lecture with Dr. Charles Ryrie on preterism this weekend. Hopefully I can come back with some good info on how it can distort prophecy and how to refute it and avoid it.

I would have SWORN you and I would have disagreed on eschatological views. I am simply at a loss.........

This post was last modified: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:52 PM by Jim.

I got all of my views from studying the GNT, HOT, ASV, NASB, & the NKJV! That should shock you even more.

I think we are agreed on almost everything else except the KJV issue.

This post was last modified: Wed Apr 09, 2008 07:57 AM by Greektim.

which shows that God is powerful enough to communicate through even flawed translations and lexicons.

Notice as well that Jim has had no problem nor been hindered by wading through the "archaic" wording of the English Standard for the Word of God to come to his views. And better than that, it's all in one book instead of 5!

I am just gonna let that one go

Yep, sometimes the truth is too hot to handle!

Luke 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Ya'll are too much fun. But GreekTim, Brother Tim is right...... All of my eschatological views are taken from the KJV.

This post was last modified: Wed Apr 09, 2008 02:15 PM by Jim.

Anyway,

I agree that the view of preterism is very irrational and a dangerous way of interpreting the bible.

And that being said, I am a pre-wrath rapturist, and a premillennial dispensationalist. I believe we have to be raptured before the 70th week of Daniel begins, because it(the 70th week) is solely for Israel, e.g. the remnant of Jacob.

This post was last modified: Wed Apr 09, 2008 02:18 PM by Jim.

When you say "pre-wrath" are you referring to Pre-Trib or Rosenthal's view called pre-wrath? From what I understand about the Pre-wrath view, it takes place between the 5th & 6th seal judgment. If that is what you are referring to, then we do not agree. Could you clarify.

My point about mentioning the HOT, GNT, & etc. was to show that despite the use of the KJV I still arrive at the same conclusions.

Well, you know what they say about a broken clock.



By the way, I'm a "pan-mill". It'll all pan out in the end.

That "pan-mill" bit is like saying I don't know, I don't care, & I don't care to know. I think its weak.

I know you are not like that (of course you have a view), but I hear preachers claim that from the pulpit. Prophecy and eschatology comprises 1/3 of the Bible. I think it is safe to say that It is important! If Christ took the time to give entire discourses on the issue (Matt. 13 & 24-25) then we should take notice.

This post was last modified: Wed Apr 09, 2008 09:27 PM by Greektim.

When I say pre-wrath, I am talking about pre-tribulational rapture.

Ok, good. Have you ever heard of the Pre-wrath view? It was popularized by Marvin Rosenthal. Some books about the pre-wrath view are:
The Pre Wrath Rapture of the Church, Marvin J. Rosenthal
God's Elect and the Great Tribulation: An Exposition of Matthew 24:1-31 and Daniel 9, Charles Cooper
Before God's Wrath: The Bible's Answer to the Timing of the Rapture, Revised and Expanded Edition , H.L. Nigro
There are some more, but I can't think of them right now. I just wanted to bring this to your attention so you explain yourself w/o any misunderstandings. The Pre-wrath view (not aply named) is not Pre-Tribism.

Yes, but I had forgotten about Rosenthal until you brought him up again.

According to some people around here, Matthew is for the Jews. I'm not a Jew. (but I don't really care what they think, anyhow. I'll still read it and live by it.) [For that matter, some folks believe that the writings of Paul are the only truths that apply to the "church age", so maybe the importance percentage needs to be recalculated.]

It is not that I don't know about prophecy, or that I don't care, or that I don't think that it is important. It is simply that I place a higher priority on two other areas. My first responsibility is to know for myself and then to teach others how God expects for us to live today. That is why I am in the ministry of Christian Education. Second, God has given me a great burden to make a stand for the purity of His Scriptures. That is why I spend a lot of time not only on forums such as this, but in reading, writing, and speaking about the issue.

End-times prophecy is important for me more in a general point-of-view at this time. When I speak about it, I point out that God is still active in the affairs of this world, that He is carrying out His plans without the interference of man, and that the only thing about which we can be certain is that His Will will be accomplished, regardless of the understanding (or lack of it) that I (or anyone else) have about exactly how He is going to do it.

How many of the books, messages, diagrams, or ideas about prophecy written prior to 1948 have become obsolete since Israel returned to the land? How many books etc have become obsolete since the USSR fell? If God tarries and the world scene changes so dramatically that today's world powers and countries which dominate the news become non-players on the world stage, how much different will the ideas about prophecy be then?

I am not saying that it is useless or worthless, only that it does not carry the weight with me that other things do.

When the house is burning down around you, you don't spend much time thinking about next month's bills getting paid, you are desperately trying to get your family out of danger. The Christian church today is being consumed by the world because of the lack of knowledge of God's Word. My job is to get as many as I can to develop a desire to learn His Will through His Words and to do battle for the purity of those Words.

Amen. Sermon over. (for now)