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+--- Thread: If Pentecostals are in error what was Acts 2 all about? (/thread-769.html)
- Jim - Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:00 AM
A burensome transition! - Danzo121 - Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:00 AM
Hey Jim that didn't hurt one bit but Bro; for now you are stepping up to the lectern to face your congregation with your Bible in your hand and demonstrating maturity and authority as an anointed Brother in Christ, and I sincerely accept your rebuke as the stripes of an Elder Brother across my back.
Let me tell you something personal Jim, that for some years my wife Anita, as well as Antonia my 13 year old Daughter and I were in a New Frontiers International Charismatic assembly in the town, together with my 30 year old Son Matthew and his wife Michelle and my 3 beautiful Grand-children, the church we were in was especially cursed, in that it was not only Charismatic and Ecumenical but was also Dominionistic, and our dear Bro Davo in his patience assisted me in seeing the danger I was putting my family in, but my transition out of there has been painfully burdensome, seeing that there are hardly any Churches around these north Kent towns that are not Charismatic or Ecumanistic, and seeing I lead my whole family out of the curse of Rome, it remained my burden to seek out a place where we could all go, that was family-orientated as well as actively Evangelistic, (being that Matthew and I were both active in Ministry) and that, let me tell you Jim is almost impossible to find here in Kent. Even Davo?s Church, beautiful though is, has virtually no Evangelistic outreach in the Community it serves, except for a weekly lunch for the elderly.
We settled for an AOG Pentecostal Church locally, I know you will be thinking that we had jumped out of the frying pan into the fire (You?re probably right) but somehow I knew God's sweet guidance, for my family know that I will not accept a man's prophesy just because he says "thus saith the Lord" nor will I stand to entertain the wagging tongues of (Mostly women) as they make their often less than dignified ?divine? utterances, although I am more than ever confident that God has yet to move me further, until I close the door altogether on those who wish to be seen as super-spiritual, for God knows that I for one do not, and my family know my unshakable stance regarding men-pleasers and heresy, having seen the Toronto ?blessing? rip souls apart in recent years right here on our door-step!!!
Yet, let me tell you, the Pentecostal (Not Charismatic) people have been the most loving and welcoming people we have encountered on our entire journey of faith these 30 odd years, a people who know the Grace of God, although it is true there are elements that we reserve our judgement over, including tongues, prophesy and healing etc. God knows our hearts!
I anticipate in my spirit that the contempory movement in our Church will overtake the traditional and more richly Bible based Church that it once was, and seeing we have already lost our precious hymns, that the family of God had sung for generations, replaced by some good songs I?ve no doubt, but nevertheless a more abundant mixture of rock & roll choruses that appeal more to the young than fifty year olds! Am I happy with that sad demise of Eternal Father strong to save and There is power in the blood? NO I am not, but I know that God is moving us on gradually step by step, so that we may be certain where He would have us to be, although it appears at the moment that we will either nail our colours to the mast and stay and shout His praises over the din of the drums, or take serious steps to move again, to a place where we can all settle down, maybe to warm the pews of a dead old Anglican Church somewhere! Alternatively we can start our own Church here at home, that would not be an easy option I guess!
Either way, I still echo my sentiments Jim, that I would rather be in fellowship with precious Saints like you Guys, than be keeping fellowship with purpose driven, self-esteem building Super-Saints, that point to Benny Hinn and Rick Warren for guidance, for I have my Bible, together with my Foxes book of Martyrs, which I use to occasionally stir my heart to remember where that wonderful book came from.
As for our friend and Brother Pastor Wally, I feel that he is here in much the same way as myself, looking for friends and fellowship and I bless God for him and for you alike.
I may be good writer, that loves to use expression and character in my letters, but I do have a good heart Jim, in wanting to bless my Brethren, although as you have noticed my ol tough Londoner attitude breaks through now and again, spoiling the flour, you know what I mean? Having been in a young offenders Military Training prison for 3 years, (Didn?t do me any harm) after my dear Mum died in the 60?s and now a Carpenter, Joiner and Builder, since that dismal and unspeakably painful time in my life, when my Spanish culture just crashed to the floor. A long story!! But praise God for His love and peace and His outpored Grace day by day, pouring in the oil of gilead, bless His Holy name!!!
Jim, I know I talk too much, but I hope something of what I have written will help you to see why I am where I am, and I value your prayers for the future, as I seek to guide my loved ones onto the right path that will bring lasting assurance and joy. Amen
Love in Jesus
Dan
- Jim - Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:19 AM
Dan,
I thank you for your words and explanation. While my words are harsh many a time, my motives are true to the Lord. I certainly will not invoke my heart-felt reasoning anywhere here as it is continually wicked and I can do no good except that which with the Lord graciously overcomes me.
I thank the Lord for your path to understanding and pray that you will continually heed the pricking by the Holy Spirit, as I pray the same for myself and all of our dear brethren.
Please allow me to say some things, and I will endeavor to say it as meekly as I possibly know how.
First, your reference to jumping from the pan into the fire is fairly close to be fair. If you honestly know this, then I would cry to find another church. They are out there! Please, please dear brother, do not seek out a church that puts forth love at the sacrifice of doctrine! On the same token do not seek out a church so steeped in doctrine that it can put forth no love! There has to be a church somewhere that the Lord has for you if you seek Him earnestly. The Lord will not fail you.
Remember the Words of the Lord:
Quote:Proverbs 6:27
Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?
6:28
Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned?
These words explain sin and it's effects. It will affect a christian's walk with the Lord somehow
I will pray that you may find a bible-believing, loving church. I certainly do believe He will give you one, do you know why? Because:
Quote:John 14:13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14:14
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
The Lord means anything. Now also please understand that the lord also knows that this is in reference to the pure heart of His children that do not ask for anything amiss:
Quote:James 4:3
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Quote:Either way, I still echo my sentiments Jim, that I would rather be in fellowship with precious Saints like you Guys, than be keeping fellowship with purpose driven, self-esteem building Super-Saints,
Then I cry agonizingly for you to understand that this is what I preach against! It is not you personally! it is the things that have been given forth, the ideas that I am against! Oh how men want to be esteemed, how they want to be accepted!( I am referring to these people you have just described)
Like Leonard Ravenhill once said:
"How is that the world couldn't get on with the Holiest man that ever lived, but it can get along with you and me? Are we compromised?"
I give an emphatic yes! We have compromised our stance, we have compromised our walk with our Holy God who deserves no less than our complete and utter devotion, with no heed to ourselves!
Please understand my admonition, that it is not against you as a person dear brother, it is against the doctrine of the world-system that continually raises its ugly head against the deity of Jesus Christ.
Love in Christ,
Jim
Amazing Grace. - Danzo121 - Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:58 AM
Jim, I cannot promise but I will before the Lord endeavour to press forward in my search for true Philadelphia fellowship, where there are no adherents to cultish activities and false gospels but where the Lord Jesus Christ is glorified both in the worship and the Word. I call that Philadelphia Fellowship.
Quote:7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Now I am blessed beloved Brother, that you have touched my heart with your love and tenderness and I will rejoice that there are such as George and yourself who wait for the Saints to pass, to lift them and encourage their hearts in the Lord, for this I give Glory to God.
In the love of Jesus our Lord.
Dan
- George - Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:43 AM
Why only $10,000 Mitch? Go for a new sanctuary!
In Christ,
George
- Jim - Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:18 PM
Amen brother Dan, and I thank you for your words.
Love in Christ,
Jim
- Pastor Wally - Sat Jun 17, 2006 04:37 AM
I came to this site to find the fellowship that Christians have in the Lord Jesus Christ,
And I found disdain and condemnation from a group of people for not adhering to their way of thinking.
?Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.?
I came to this site to find Christian love and understanding,
And I found so called fundamentalists with an arrogant knowledge that was so cold and antiseptic that it takes people away from God instead of drawing them in.
?Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.?
I came to this site to increase my Bible knowledge and to get to know the view of others,
And I found a group of people who are so self-centred and so sure of themselves that they have the only truth that all they have for others is total contempt.
?Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.?
I came to this site to share the Word of God and the Gospel of salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ,
And I found people who were only willing to believe what they think the Bilbe is saying and who ignore the very truth of the Scriptures even when it is put before them.
?Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.?
I came to this site to find consolation and encouragement,
And I found people whose only aim is to prove that they are right and everyone else is wrong and who justify themselves by taking Scripture out of context to make it say what they want it to say. And often it made me feel like Ezekiel when the Lord told him:
?And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briersc{c briers...: or, rebels} and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house. And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear: for they are most rebellious.
I came to this site because I believed that fundamental preachers would divide the Word of God correctly.
And I found people who claim that their belief is based on the Bible and even consider it to be the infallible Word of God, (as I do) but then misuse it with their own interpretations.
I am disappointed and feel sorry for them.
And I will worry you no more.
- Jim - Sat Jun 17, 2006 07:34 AM
Goodbye.
- George - Sat Jun 17, 2006 09:07 AM
Gee, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Pastor Wally was judging. Isn't that hypocrisy?
In Christ,
George
Take care and God bless. - Danzo121 - Sat Jun 17, 2006 09:12 AM
Dearest Pastor Wally,
Take care and God bless you Brother, Be of good cheer beloved for we will all be united soon in Glory and all our differences resolved.
The peace of God our Heavenly Father go with you and with those you love and for our precious Brothers and Sisters in Australia too, a land that God was pleased to bless with beautiful things and wonderful people.
All our love to you Walter in Jesus lovely name.
Dan and Anita XXX
Please E-mail me here: dan.carlton@btinternet.com
- jgb321 - Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:47 AM
George, must you use that slang? Gee. Everybody knows its an abbreviation for Jesus!
- Jim - Sat Jun 17, 2006 06:54 PM
One of the wonderful thing about heaven is that there won't be any differences.
Until then, we have God's Word in scripture and must to the best of our ability, allow the Holy Spirit to reveal and convict as He sees fit, even if that means separating from unruly brethren.
Love in Christ,
Jim
- Danzo121 - Sat Jun 17, 2006 09:03 PM
I just wanted Pastor Wally to go in the the love of God Jim, even if he wasn't able to see eye to eye with others, he was unfortunately unable to touch hearts without feeling seperate and unwanted by reason of the cold written word, that sometimes comes across as unloving and harsh, as for me I have been through a very hot furnace and find that by making myself vulnerable and seeking to overcome my own natural Adamic pride and arrogance and fully surrendering to the new man in Christ, I am then suffering offence and making my Father's promise true in my experience:
Quote:Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:I personally think Pastor Wally genuinely felt alienated and offended by certain responses and it would have been good to have seen him overcome his differences and so ramain here to grace us with his valuable input. He deserved to be here more than me and yet you have demonstrated to me that you can be gentle and loving and I have received it, even in the midst of being rebuked and corrected, an attitude of heart I treasure greatly, and seek to emulate whenever possible.
Love in Jesus
Dan
- George - Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:12 PM
Quote:George, must you use that slang? Gee. Everybody knows its an abbreviation for Jesus!
I pray that anyone who was offended by my use of that word will forgive me. Please accept my apologies. I meant no offense.
I actually used the word as sort of a contraction for the phrase,
"gee whiz" which according to the dictionary has no connection with our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. That can be verified through any print or on-line dictionary. However in order to avoid any confusion or to have anyone take such in a manner other than that intended I will pray that The Lord remove this particular term from my vocabulary.
Again my apologies.
In Christ,
George
- Davo - Sun Jun 18, 2006 05:16 PM
What was Acts 2 all about?
It was about exposing a murder. God was so keen to impress on the murderers their guilt, he spoke to them, through the in their languges of the countries in which they were born. The accusation is in verse 23: "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:"
But it does not end there. God raised him up, v.24. and
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Their resonse: 37 ? Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?38
The Remedy: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (That's us.)
The result: 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (3000 added to the curch that day!)
Were they added to the roll and were never seen again with God's people? NO!
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Continuing daily.
We are not innocent of the murder of God's Son. Our sins nailed him to the tree, so this message is for us and people today "Those who are afar off.
I would note that they were all Galileans who spoke in other languages, v.7, that is the apostles. It was also the Apostles who did many signs and wonders. verse 43.
Love in Christ