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- Jim - Mon Jun 12, 2006 05:47 PM
Well said David.
Love in Christ,
Jim
Well said David. - Danzo121 - Mon Jun 12, 2006 06:12 PM
Well said David.
So is Christian Rock Music honouring to God? - Danzo121 - Mon Jun 12, 2006 06:20 PM
Dearest Brethren
I guess we will leave the Pentecostal Christian Rock music for another time?
- George - Mon Jun 12, 2006 06:21 PM
Quote:I reckon that God?s Word is enough and apart from standing to speak Scripture in love to the congregation, to exhort others to trust in what it says on a matter, then it might be better if men and women just shut up and let the man of God preach as the Holy Ghost leads him, to bring comfort, instruction and correction to a fickle people full of self interest, looking for someone to boost their self-esteem, as we have seen with the purpose driven ministries that have now hit Britain?s Evangelical Churches, including my own.
Wel then, it sounds to me like you need to find yourself a good, independent, fundamental Baptist Church. That is what takes place in my Church each and every Sunday.
You mention women. According to the Bible women are supposed to maintain silence in the Church. Is tha another area of the Bible the Pentecostal church you go to does not pay heed to?
I echo the statements of Davo and Jim. Why on earth do you continue to go to a Church that does not support God's Holy Word that you tell us you love so much? Continuing to attend such a church gives creedence to their doctrine and shows you are accepting of it. Your mere presence in the church shows others you accept the things of that church.
Personally, if I ever wnet into a church that did not accept the Bible, preach the Bible, do it's best to go by the standards of the Bible and maintain an orderly sense of worship I would RUN out the door I came in through very fast.
I must tell you that not all Baptist Churches are up to the standards of the Bible either. Unfortunately there are a lot of them who are relaxing their standards and taking on the things of the world such as "praise bands," contemporary worship services and things of that nature. I know people all across the United States who search weekly for good, fundamental Baptist Churches. I know that brother Jim and I have both been blessed with being able to attend such Churches.
The only reason one goes to Church (at least I hope so) is to worship God. Anything else that I get out of it is a special blessing. Babbling on in some "tongue" the Lord does not even know is not worshipping Him. It is just the opposite. It shows a complete disdain and disregard for His Holy Word.
In Christ,
George
Thanks for the kind advice. - Danzo121 - Mon Jun 12, 2006 06:42 PM
Thanks for the kind advice Goerge, I know that many things are wrong in my Church and I cannot pretend that everything is altogether Biblical, especially when I hear Leaders quoting from the Message bible and organizing events that meet the worlds standards but have no place in the house of God, but be patient with me Brothers I am getting there slowly, as Davo's influence on me over the last few years has made me realise the horrors of the Charismatic church, (which I previously had a major part in) and it's dangerous connections with Rome and for that I have blogged Christian networks with warnings of being associated with such.
I love my Brother Davo and his dear wife Kay, for they have been a rich blessing to me and helped me to grind off the trash that I have inadvertantly picked over the years. They are sound in the faith and I feel safe being with them, so please remember that I am a Brother too, as all I have received so far, except the last couple of replys has been cold and unloving, what about seeking to find out how I feel and taking the time and effort to get to know me, to find out why I go to the Church I go to.
I value your prayes and long for fellowship..... not judgement!!!
It's good to know that there are people like you George and I hope and pray God blesses you as you help others to see the light of God, as you share on this forum with Jim, but be more sensitive and caring in responding, for you never know when God has placed a word of correction brought with love and tenderness, that may change the direction of a Brother or Sister who has strayed from the true path, so saving them from the great deception!
- Jim - Mon Jun 12, 2006 06:48 PM
If I am reading Davo's response correctly, which I believe I am, then why are you lauding his response with "well said"?
You said:
Quote:Well I had hoped you would stay off that subject Brothers, but as you brought it up, let me tell what it is like being in a Church that reels off tongues as natural as singing!
For me it is very different though, as although I have been personally speaking in my heart to the Lord for so many years in an unknown language other than my own Mother tongue, which is Spanish incidentally, it has never been something I like to flaunt, for I feel that the tongues spoken in the Church today is probably about 97% flesh in any case, and I often die a thousand deaths when I hear the roaring coriander.. coriander.. coriander brigade.
then David said,
Quote:I find it worrying that you will accept something which you admit is only 3% of God. Which 3% do you accept? and which 97% do you reject? And how do you tell the difference? You say correctly that God's word is enough, so why do you need prophecy?
You know that modern day tongues are not languages, and therefore not biblical. You know that modern prophecy is not biblical prophecy. You know that modrn day healings are no healings at all.
YOU KNOW. So why are you in that Church?
You are confusing me. How can you say one thing, then praise somebody for disagreeing with you?
Love in Christ,
Jim
Sorry Jim. - Danzo121 - Mon Jun 12, 2006 06:53 PM
Sorry Jim, I knew it was my old mate David and I was just messing about but seriously, I bless God for him and although we don't see eye to eye about everything, as he of his own confession doesn't with David Cloud, who must be the most respected Brother on the net, we do have a good relationship and I hope after this he still wants to speak to me!!!
Sorry Davo, see you in the morning Bro.
Love Dan
- George - Mon Jun 12, 2006 07:09 PM
Be more sensitive and caring in my responses? Excuse me? The Bible commands that when someone is caught up in a fault I do my best to restore them. I cannot do that without judging. There are too many people out there involved in the touchy-feely, feel good, modern perversions of Christianity that just want to be accepted. It does not work that way.
Was even our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ sensitive and caring in His responses? Not according to my Bible.
Quote:(Matthew 15:7) Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
(Matthew 16:3) And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
(Matthew 23:13) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
(Matthew 12:34) O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
(Matthew 12:34) O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
(Luke 3:7) Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Those are but a very few examples of how Jesus Christ called a spade a spade. Am I saying I am as good as He? In no way! Am I saying that I am following the charge of the Bible and attempting to image Him in every way I possibly can? Yea, verily!
Don't expect to get any tolerance or candy-coated drivel from me. I have no tolerance at all for people who know they are involved in false churches and yet continue to support them by attending and probably even contributing your hard earned money to them. That is utterly wrong!
Let me tell you something fellow, I am a Baptist preacher. The primary emphasis of my entire ministry is The Need For Change. I will take inventory of the problems people have in their lives and preach to them EXACTLY what and how they need to change. No beating around the bush or pussy-footing about as is done in the non-denominational, eccumenical churches.
And you know what? If that drives people off that is okay. It will cause them to think and to meditate on their stance in life as far as the Bible is concerned. I would much rather preach to 20 good, solid Christian people that really want to hear what Almighty God has to say then a whole packed auditorium of hundreds of Sunday-go-to-meeting "Christians' any day.
I stand on the Bible. The Bible is the SOLE aithority for both faith and practice. If you have read anything on these boards you will find why I take that stance. And may I tell you something else? I have been successful, with God's great assistance, in having men who were once convicts, gang-bangers, drug addicts and alcoholics, full of tatoos and other such things, and assisting them into becoming good, solid Christians who will not miss a Church service unless they are in the hospital or the mortuary.
They know the Need For Change and will follow God's Word. It is the 'comfortable" christians who will not make the necessary changes. Even my own Church is full of people with anger problems, eating disorders and things of tha nature and they are not willing to make the changes the Bible says they need to. They are comfortable with themselves.
God forbid that I EVER get comfortable with my Christianity and my relationship with Him. Be sensitive and caring. It is fortuante I am a Christian man or I would really tell you some things! And they would not be the things you want to hear either. I don't preach that way. I tell people the things God wants them to hear.
In Christ,
George
Goodbye George. - Danzo121 - Mon Jun 12, 2006 07:28 PM
Dear George
Thats just fine!!! Thank God Davo doesn't share the same sentiment, although he might with a staranger and I understand how you must feel towards me coming on your forum spouting things that you refute.
Anyway you just take care of yourself and thanks for sharing.
Goodbye.
Love in Jesus
- Davo - Tue Jun 13, 2006 04:23 PM
Yes Jim, you did read my reply correctly.
Have you ever thought that tongues, prophecy, etc (utterances) could be idolotry?
The following quotes are from Robert Baxter, a leading prophet of the Irvingite Church before he realised it was a delusion. The quotes are from Baxter's work, IRVINGISM in its Rise, Progress, and Present State, 1836.
Quote:The idol of the Irvingites is the power of utterance. This they implicitly obey as the Voice of God. To the worship of this all the signs and wonders which are manifested, bring them. p36and
Quote:We would merely draw the attention of the reader to the simple fact that all the changes in Mr Irving's views and church arrangements, were in subservience and strict obedience to these utterances, and from the period of their introduction into his church, they were worshipped as the voice of God in the gift of prophecy. p 10
- George - Tue Jun 13, 2006 04:32 PM
Oh they definitely are Davo. Idolatry is putting anything before God. In this case since tongues and prophecies are prohibited by the Bible and in fact have not even been granted since the First Century the people who are involved in such things are putting themselves before God and His Word.They are exhibiting that they believe and practice the parts of the Bible they want to and ignoring parts they don't care to follow.
Let me give you the definition for idolatry from the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary that fits in this case:
Quote:2. Excessive attachment or veneration for any thing, or that which borders on adoration.
Adoration? My goodness, I have had people tell me that in Pentecostal Churches they have gone to if they do not speak in tongues they are not saved! What kind of hogwash is that?
In Christ,
George
Tongues - Danzo121 - Tue Jun 13, 2006 05:14 PM
Trouble is George you have such a shallow view of Pentecostal people that you ought to watch you don't get yourself carried off in a flaming chariot, for I have not met a man as righteous as you since I read about Enoch!!! Oh it was that other Brother Elijah that went up a chariot wasn?t it?
- George - Tue Jun 13, 2006 05:19 PM
Indeed I do have a shallow view of them. I have a rather shallow view of anyone that does not believe the Bible in its entirely. One thing is for certain though, if I do get carried off in a flaming chariot I will be in heaven with my Maker. Praise God for that day!!!
In Christ,
George
- Davo - Tue Jun 13, 2006 05:19 PM
He actually went up in a whirlwind
- Danzo121 - Tue Jun 13, 2006 05:33 PM
Whirlwind or chariot who cares Bro, it might just be that when you get there you find some ol Pentecostals like me dancing around to the Glory of God.