Pete,
Read post #16 of this thread - there's a reference to the pinnacle on this subject. Edwards had some things correct, but Dr Vance nails it down.

While I do not have a clear understanding of Calvinism, I do believe that I can lend to the original discussion of "Limited Atonement".

Limited atonement, in my opinion, is something that would negate Christ's work at Calvary.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Christ's own words here would seem to indicate that ALL mankind has a right to salvation, not just a few.

Look at the Jewish nation. If limited atonement meant that only the "elect" receive atonement for their sins, then why are the Jews considered "God's chosen ones"? They reject the Savior who died as the atonement for our sins, yet God places them in a special place and reserves a historical opportunity for them in end times. The Bible clearly indicates that the nation of Israel will "return to Him" in the end times. Does that mean Jesus' sacrifice was not meant for the Jews? If that were true, then where do the rest of us fall?

Jesus didn't pick and choose who He died for. He died for ALL sinners, and not just the elect. What would make someone a member of the "elect"? I certainly was not worthy of His sacrifice, yet I know beyond any doubt that I am a Blood-bought child of God, and that Christ's sacrifice at Calvary was meant for me, for you, and for anyone who would accept Him.

Also, I want to comment on something that I read earlier about being "His people".

We may not be of the "Seed of Jacob", but remember that we are all of the same seed, historically speaking. The Gentiles received the same sacrifice that the Jews received, and we are all "God's children".

The hyper-calvinist conveniently fixes the problem of "all" by redefining it and the word "world" to fit his doctrine, at least the one I debated did so.

It is convenient also that the teacher of "particular redemption" always sees himself as one of the elect.

I was wondering what some thought of my videos I did on Calvinism as a false gospel. Check YouTube and type in "Calvinism false gospel" and you should pull up three videos by Steve McCalip. Also would like to know what some think about my anti-Calvinism articles on my site at kingjamesman.com

Steve, because your doctrinal position on the Godhead does not match the statement of faith on this board, we might not be the best ones to evaluate your teaching in other areas. We see your doctrine as a false gospel as well.

I did scan your site and looked at one article. I must say that I have never heard a trinitarian try to use the three men who visited Abram as a manifestation of the trinity. That is a horrible interpretation if there is someone who believes that way, and I doubt that any serious students of the Scriptures would even consider it as such. I would be curious as to where you found that belief.

This post was last modified: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:10 PM by Brother Tim.

The bible does not say there were three wise men, just that they bore 3 gifts. There could have been two or four or more. Could also have been three.