This is from the Church thread. I am bringing it over here.

If you like we can use that mention of the K of the heavens.

I am not showing a contradiction but a mistranslation. STrongs shows the lexical form of the word. No matter how a word is used in the text, STrongs will only cite it in its lexical form to give the lexical meaning. Thus it is a lexicon. STrongs shows ouranos when the word in Matt. is ouranwn. (How did you guys get that Greek font, I want to use it here )

So there is no textual question that the word used is ouranwn (οὐρανῶν, genitive plural masculine). The lexical form of ouranwn is ouranos (nominative singular masculine). Even the definite article twn before ouranwn is the same (gen. sing. masc). That is a grammar rule b/c the def. article has to agree with its word in case, number, and gender. Thus, since the word is plural, a correct translation is "of the heavens" (the "of" comes from it being in the genitive case). The only possible singular forms for ouranos (οὐρανός) is 1) ouranos (οὐρανός, nominative sing. masc), 2) ouranou (οὐρανοῦ, genitive sing. masc.), 3) ouranw (οὐρανῷ, dative sing. masc.), 4) ouranon (οὐρανὸν, accusative sing. masc.). ouranwn is none of those. It is a plural. Look it up in any Analytical Lexicon (different than just a regular lexicon b/c it shows each word used in the text and breaks it down).

Ok, just so you know, I did not write that so you see how much greek I know. That was something you learn in the 3rd or 4th week of Greek 1. I am just showing you that the word is plural in the Greek but it is hardly ever translated correctly. Why? B/c the translators, instead of translating w/o bias and theology in mind, translate an interpretation not a translation. The realm of heaven was not in mind with that Kingdom. It was the Davidic Kingdom which comes from the skies (Dan. 7:13).

Please, please, please, understand that I am only writing that Greek stuff above not to say "look at greektim, he knows greek." I did it just to prove a point.

This post was last modified: Fri Apr 04, 2008 02:43 PM by Greektim.

It would have shown real faith and trust, to have stopped at that point. However,
in Matt 12:28, notice the 2nd mention of the kingdom of God, not "heaven" (Matt 6:33 being 1st). Note that in both cases, it is connected with spiritual power, or spiritual righteousness, so this is the way it is defined in Romans 14:17. Observe that when Christ is present, both kingdoms are present (Mark 1:15 & Matt 4:17), but one is found nowhere between Genesis chapter 3 and Matthew chapter 1 ("the kingdom of God"), and the other ("the kingdom of heaven") is found nowhere between Acts 7 and the Rapture. Not one recognized Hebrew or Greek "scholar" was shown this basic Bible truth, which deals with the main subject in both Testaments - the Kingdom. The "original Hebrew," the "original Greek,", and the "original autographs" may do something for somebody, but they certainly do not reveal anything that wasn't clear, in ENGLISH, more than 200 years before the Hebrew and Greek "scholars" showed up.

I am moving this over to the Church thread. It is more pertinent there.

The issue is quite simple. The Greek word is plural. An accurate translation should translate the word as plural. Otherwise, the translation is misleading. In the case of the KJV and most other English translations, the word is translated singular which is a mistranslation (whether done out of translation philosophy, interpretive reasons, or ignorance).

This post was last modified: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:53 PM by Greektim.

I have sent an email to the one man that I completely trust when it comes to Greek. His name is Dr. D.A. Waite. He is the founder of the Dean Burgon Society, and is a long-time advocate for the preserved Greek text. He has an impressive resume in languages. I am hoping that he can shed some light on this. His sites are
http://www.biblefortoday.org and http://www.deanburgonsociety.org.

GreekTim, it is not that I am questioning your research on the issue, I just don't particularly trust the resource materials often used by Greek students today. He may agree with your translation, or may have a further explanation. We'll see.

I look forward to hearing his insights on the matter at hand.