Do you believe that the English corrects the Greek? I am asking because there were no capitals used in the Greek! This is where a translation is more than a translation. It becomes an interpretation. The KJV translators were not Dispensational and likely not pre-millennial. But it doesn't matter how they view "the tribulation" vs. "the Tribulation" from the text. It only matters what the text says. The text doesn't have to be capitalized for it to be a specific time period. After all, the KJV refers to the Holy Spirit as an "it." Does that mean the Holy Spirit is not a person in the same way as the Father or Son? No...the KJV was adhering to the Greek grammar rule of gender matching (though the grammar rule is not what you might think it is in the KJV) since the word "spirit" is neuter in gender.

It is quite interesting after reading through this thread, the direction that this thread has gone in. It started out as a warning to stay away from a worldly, imposter Baptist web forum and has ended up as a forum full of doctrine from two individuals that are adrift in the sea of Biblical higher criticism and the denial that the KJB and the KJB only is the only Word of God. Just look back at who started the movement from the topic. Beware brethren!

Beware of what - having your convictions challenged? If anything, this should make you stronger in your beliefs.

Rabbit trails happen in almost every thread. It is the nature of the beast. We have rabbit trailed from the fighting forum to Bibliology and eschatology. It happens.

Side note - as I understand the terms, higher criticism is not to be confused with textual criticism (aka lower criticism). I have not gone to the "sea of Biblical criticism" in any of these discussions. Just a clarification.

I was assuming that Chuck meant me, because I was the one who through the rabbit out into the yard in the first place. (post #25). Anyway, I think that we are fulfilling the spirit of the title of the post, even though the current topic does not match post #1.

We are fundamentalists and we do love fightin', don't we?

GreekTim (aka Ali) can dodge and weave with the best of them!

Not to worry Brother Chuck. That is one of the things I like about the forums. One subject can quite obviously lead to another and on and on. If we were to open new threads each time someone brought up a point of doctrine we would have so many of them it would be difficult to keep track of all of them. Another concern I have is that if things were placed into a different thread each time a new thought came up the topic could become very fragmented.

In Christ,
George

GreekTim (aka Ali) can dodge and weave with the best of them!

Float like a butterfly & sting like a bee.

Bro. Churck did mention "two individuals" although I figured he meant Nate and me.

"Float like a butterfly & sting like a bee." You INSECT!

I just stopped at the word "adrift" and figgered that fit me most of the time.

Better to be a bug and right (about translations ) than to be...a non-bug and be wrong. couldn't figure out how to say that very well.

Greektim, once again I see that you are trying to impress us with your superior intellect and knowledge. You are full of the knowledge of man which is flawed at best.

Quite frankly I am getting rather tired of it. Why are you here? There is no one here you are going to change. Are you here for the sake of being a thorn in people's sides? I do not understand why you continue on in this way when you are assuredly aware of our stance on your "translations."

You are by no means right as far as translations go. In fact I find you completely wrong. From what you post continually it appears to me you do not believe the Bible. There have been many conflicts in what you have posted here. You may be a Brother in Christ but I find you to be a miss-guided Brother.

In Christ,
George

I guess you just can't express anything in English after all. Such a weak language.

George, don't worry yourself over this flea (or bee, whatever). We've got him on the run. He's going to be too buzy (he,he) explaining the unexplainable (dispo) to get anything else done.

This post was last modified: Wed May 14, 2008 05:11 PM by Brother Tim.

GreekTim, From what I understand, textual criticism was introduced by the desire for a more "literal" or may I use my own brand of criticism, "liberal" translation of the Word of God. This resulted in the Wescott/Hort heresy that all modern "translations" use as the basis for their commentaries on what they "think" the Bible says. Higher Criticism was started in Germany during the late 1800's and that brand of hersy doubted even if the Word of God had any truth in it. Also, you do not need to guess if I was speaking of yourself and Nate, I am. I really cannot sit by very long and see the very Word of God that has the power to change a life be put off as a "translation" or a "version." This is not in a mean spirit, I really do think that you desire to serve God, I just pray that you will be able to decide for yourself that God does love His children enough to give His Word to them.
In the charity of Christ,
Bro. Chuck

Perhaps he will overload and self-destruct?

In Christ,
George

My gracious, there is some thin skin here. It was a joke! I was just trying to get a similar rise out of you guys (which has happened before w/ Bro Tim and I).

I wasn't trying to impress you. I was accused of using higher criticism (liberalism) and I was merely defending myself. Goodness gracious! Is that so wrong?!? I am not using higher criticism. Words have meaning. You need to make sure that your accusations fit the accusee. That was my point. It seems like anything that I say is confronted as intellectualism because you don't agree. The KJVO people always play that card. Nothing in my previous statements in this thread had anything to do with intellectualism or elitism. But I will correct someone who is accusing me of liberalism though.

Like I said, George, if you want me to go, then change your doctrinal statement. Cause as far as I can tell, I am abiding to it closer than you. You don't mention the KJV. Change it and I am gone. Otherwise, I have enjoyed the discussions and ribbings that we give each other. It is all in good fun (or so I thought). The problem is, you guys can give it but you can't & won't take it. Just chill out and understand I am not trying to be divisive. I am just trying to kid around with you and have a good time with fellow brethren.

Bro Chuck, you need to do your homework on your phrases (i.e. higher criticism, textual criticism, and lower criticism) and modern translations. The NASB, NIV, NKJV, ASV, & ESV did NOT use W-H. Do a little research. They use an eclectic text! They examine all of the extant mss. See, I come of as intellectual because I have to correct the misconceptions. You defend the KJV so I will defend the other versions that are misrepresented. It is easy to tear them down when you build a straw man. But you would be stronger if you knew the truth and were able to formulate arguments and convictions based on the truth and not a straw man. Instead of intellectualism, I am just trying to help you.

Shew, that was a load off my chest. Just so I can be clear (and not use smiley faces) I am very frustrated, but I am not mad. I love this forum. I wouldn't advertise on my blog if I didn't. I am not here to be divisive. That is why I am frustrated. My motives are always questioned and taken the wrong way. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean that I am trying to cause division. I am just trying to get you guys to think and smile all at the same time. I hope we can move on past this misunderstanding and enjoy each other's humor as well as appreciate the challenges we each bring to the table. But if you all do not want that, then just say so.

Ok, now I am finished.

GTim,
Good, maybe now Bros George & Jim, will allow you to reply to post #24 on the "Why I use the KJB" thread. It seems that your perceived "intellectualism" has clouded your judgment. The posts exhibited by you so far, have been akin to the Stoics/Epicureans that Paul encountered. Bro Chuck has hit the nail on the head - your mv's DO in fact use the W-H (+other mss) that are from the Alexandrian (read: "corrupt") line of manuscripts - different terminology can't mask the truth. You were given this very misguided idea by your professors, that there have been some previously "undiscovered documents, that the KJB translators didn't have." That's one of the oldest lies in existence. You mean God was going to hide His pure word until some "scholars" stumbled upon it? Are you serious? "You guys dish it out, but can't and won't take it"? Who're you kiddin'? We made a comment about these deluded "brains" you learned from in college, and you went whinnin' like a little school girl. Everything discovered has corroborated FULLY, the KJB, not the mvs. Also, previously stated, that EVERYTHING coming out is compared to only ONE Bible - the KJB - wonder why? Hmmmmm...........
If I was looking at this issue, as a outsider/newbie, I'd want the KJB, if for no other reason, than the "scholarly/intellectual" crowd does nothing but KICK it!

In any event, hopefully, the mods will allow you to respond to the post #24 on the other thread.

This post was last modified: Thu May 15, 2008 03:02 AM by Mongol Servant.

Hey, I'm surprised that Greektim didn't respond to your post Mongol servant. I am of a notion that he feels that if he's studied it in his liberal college, it was taught by his liberal teachers, and I would have to say, it's been reinforced by a liberal spirit, than his definition of what is reality must be right (hope that wasn't confusing...). I've never been one for using any "version" of the Bible, I prefer to know what God said...KJB