God has chosen a people unto salvation, and that this choice took place before the creation of the world is seen in many passages.




(Eph 1:4-5 KJV) "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: {5} Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"




(Eph 1:11 KJV) "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"




We discover here that the Lord has chosen every person who has or who will come to faith in Christ and that this choice took place before the foundation of the world. Furthermore we see that this choice is according to the “good pleasure of His will.




The world “predestinate” means to pre-determine ones destiny. In this case the destiny refers to becoming a member of God’s covenant family.




(Rom 8:28-30 KJV) "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. {29} For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. {30} Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."




(1 Th 1:4 KJV) "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God."




(Acts 13:48 KJV) "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."




(2 Th 2:13 KJV) "But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"




If God has from before the beginning of time chosen certain individuals to be the beneficiaries of His grace and that number is predetermined, that is the elect will come to faith in Christ, then the question that is most often levied against such teaching is why witness?




It is argued that if such teaching is true then it will greatly hinder the work of missions. After all they argue if God has guaranteed the redemption of this group known as the elect then it matters little if we witness or not.




Yet the Bible does in fact teach the doctrine of Sovereign election and predestination, and at the same time it teaches the necessity to proclaim the gospel to the lost, that is there is no salvation where the gospel is not preached. In other words, the elect must here the gospel in order to be saved.




The first observation that I would like to make concerns the doctrine of election and church history. The fact of the matter is that some of the greatest revivals and missionary movements of the past four or five hundred years have been pioneered by those godly saints known to be of the “Calvinistic” persuasion.




The great reformation which affects are still being enjoyed by the church today were lead by such great men as John Calvin, Martin Luther, and many others who had a deep and abiding conviction regarding the eternal electing purposes of God.




The Puritan’s who migrated to this country from England in the sixteen-hundreds held to strong “Calvinistic” beliefs, yet they came here with a great desire to see gospel preached among the native Indians of this land. They saw their coming to America as a continuation of the great commission.




During the Seventeen hundreds England and America experienced what has gone down in history as the “Great Awakening.” Two of the most prominent figures of this awakening where Jonathan Edwards in America and George Whitefield in both England and America, both men were strong defenders of the doctrine of Sovereign grace. Yet they had a great desire to see the lost come to faith in Christ.




In almost every Christian classroom today and among most conservative evangelical mission agencies today William Carey is credited as being the father of the modern missionary movement. William Carey had both strong Calvinistic views regarding election and a deep burden to reach the lost.




Within Baptist circles there has not been a more beloved pastor then the late Charles H. Spurgeon. Spurgeon preach in England during the 1800's. His church was regarded as one of the greatest soul-winning centers of all time. He preach to thousands of people every Sunday and his sermons were printed and distributed all over the world.




Yet C.H.S. believed strongly in what is called “Calvinism.” He was so strong about this teaching that he wrote in his autobiography the following:




“I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching the Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism...Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of the elect and chosen people which Christ wrought upon the cross;...”

Having said this, Spurgeon had great respect for men such as John Wesley who did not hold to Calvinistic teachings regarding salvation yet labored to preach the gospel.




I remember well my journey to the doctrines of grace, in particular, when I began to teach it to this church. During that study a local Baptist minister called to rebuke me for my Calvinistic teachings. I reminded him that our beloved Spurgeon was a strong Calvinist. He response amazed me. He said that if Spurgeon were living today he wouldn’t be a Calvinist. I thought to myself, what right does he have to change the views of a dead man?




Most of you are familiar with Dr. D. James Kennedy pastor of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Fort Lauderdale Florida. He is heard on radio and seen on television throughout this country and in many foreign countries. One of his most well-known ministries is called “Evangelism Explosion.” Evangelism Explosion is a witnessing tool which trains people how to share the gospel to the lost. This evangelistic tool is being used by churches in over two-hundred nations of the world which equates to nearly 95% of all nations. What is interesting is that Dr. Kennedy is strongly Calvinistic.




The point that I am trying to make is that the charge that if one believes in sovereign election that it will destroy the churches missionary fervor is simply not true. The evidence is to the contrary. This doctrine when properly understood gives missionary boldness because it assures us that the proclamation of Christ will not be in vain, the sheep will hear the shepherds call and respond in faith.




Jesus stated that He had other sheep in the world who would hear His voice and follow Him.




(John 10:16 KJV) "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."




That not everyone are sheep is set forth by Jesus in the following verses:




(John 10:25-28 KJV) "Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. {26} But ye believe not, WHY? because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. {27} My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: {28} And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."




The sheep are scattered throughout the world and when they hear the voice of the shepherd as the gospel is proclaimed they will hear and they will follow.




Dr. John Piper in his work entitled, LET THE NATIONS BE GLAD, he shares an encounter he had several years ago with John Alexander, a former president of Intervarsity Fellowship. Mr. Alexander while reflecting upon a twenty year career as a missionary made this rather insightful observation, he said, “At the beginning of my missionary career I said that if predestination were true I would not be a missionary. Now after 20 years of struggling with the hardness of the human heart, I say I could never be a missionary unless I believed in the doctrine of election.”




Beth Iman’s brother Wayne Anderson is a missionary in Mexico, and has a great passion to see the lost saved and at the same time believes strongly in Sovereign electing grace.




My point is not that you have to believe in the doctrine of Sovereign election in order to be a missionary or to have burden for the lost, my point is to counter the false and unfounded claims that assert that these teachings hinder the work of missions and evangelism when the opposite is in fact true.




Now I would like to focus upon the main question at hand, if God has chosen a people from before the creation of the world to be the beneficiaries of His saving grace then why is it important that we preach the gospel. In other words, if the elect will must certainly be saved then why witness?




This is a great question, I am glad you ask!




But before we examine this question I want to point out that this question should be considered by Calvinist and non-Calvinist alike.




In other words, those who hold to a view of election that has God looking down the corridors of time and choosing people who He sees choosing Him and then electing them on that basis (known as the foreknowledge or prescient view of election), still must answer this question, because even under their view the number of the elect has been established before creation, that is only those who God foresees will come to Christ will come to Christ, not one less and not one more.




So it matters not if you hold the reformed view of election as I do or the non-reformed view of election we both agree that in the final analysis that only the elect will in fact be saved. So the question remains, if there is this group known as the elect, which both sides of the debate agree that there are, then why should the church spend their time, money, and energy spreading the gospel if the elect will be saved anyway?




I will answer the question in three steps:




1. God has ordained the preaching of the gospel as the means of reaching the elect.

2. God has commanded His church to carry out this means.

3. God has honored the church with the privilege to partake with Him in His missionary endeavors.




( God has ordained the preaching of the gospel as the means of reaching the elect.)




The first point that I would like to make is that God has not only foreordained the end of salvation, that is the elect will come to salvation, but He has also foreordained the means to that end. In other words, God has determined that it will be through the preaching of the gospel that the elect are saved. It is through the preaching of the gospel that the sheep hear the shepherds voice and follow Him.




(1 Cor 1:21-24 NKJV) "For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. {22} For the Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; {23} but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, {24} but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."




It is through the preaching of the gospel that “those who are called,” whether Jew or Greek are saved.




Perhaps one of the clearest text on the need to preach the gospel is found in the book of Romans 10:13-15




(Rom 10:13-15 KJV) "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. {14} How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? {15} And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"




Notice the logic of Paul’s progression here. He list a series of conditions that must be met for people to be saved. Let’s look at them in reverse order...




Without sending there will be no preachers.




Without preachers there is no preaching.




Without preaching there is no hearing.




Without hearing there is no believing.




Without believing there is no calling.




Without calling there is no salvation.




God does not gather together His elect in a vacuum, He has ordained the preaching of the gospel as the evangelistic tool that He uses to call together His sheep from out of the nations of the world. As noted earlier when the sheep hear the call of the shepherd they will respond to His voice and follow Him.

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Excellent post,

I was sitting here thinking on this subject and how it also pertains to our responsibility.

Paul writes to Timothy and says this:

When we sit back and meditate on how the Lord chose us beforetime to accomplish a purpose, according to His own purpose, it is very humbling, it should be humbling indeed. Not only humbling, but should form that desire to obey according to this knowledge.

A powerful, infinite, merciful God, who had your name as a man in His omnipotent mind without eternity having a purpose for His creation only known to Him to serve.

How can we not obey such a command? Is it possible?

We, as a chosen elect, should be about our fathers business in evangelism. I was reading another post on this site about "witnessing", but I would rather call it "a witness". God called:

The speaking of God through a humble man who has no wrong pride can be sweet to the ear of the hearer.

I also believe that these men in being a witness, can include those who do not have the intellect to preach the Gospel can still go forward and be a witness. As the Samaritan woman at the well did after hearing Jesus, we should do the same:

Some may not be able to lay out the plan of salvation, but we can always say, "Come, see what Christ did for me"

We should desire to talk about Christ! We should desire to be a witness! We should desire to have the Lord's fulfillment to obey His sovereign purpose and will!

When we obey that directive will of God, how sweet the walk along those footsteps will be!

Love in Christ,

Jim

To clean up an old phrase from somewhere in the past:

Preach the Word to everyone. Let God sort them out!

I sincerely disagree with the following statements made in the original post!

. God has ordained the preaching of the gospel as the means of reaching the elect.

2. God has commanded His church to carry out this means.

3. God has honored the church with the privilege to partake with Him in His missionary endeavors.


In regards to number one listed above; if the Gospel is the means of reaching the elect then we must conclude that those who did not hear the gospel in certain parts of the world were never part of the elect! For example native Americans, therefore, we can conclude, based on your opinion, that the vast majority of native Americans are not among the elect. This is rather foolish.

Also, we can conclude that those that are mentally retarded and or deaf and dumb are not among the elect, because they are incapable of hearing or understanding the gospel, so we can eliminate them. Once again rather foolish.

Finally, since small children are incapable of understanding the gospel message, we must assume that they too are not among the elect and they therefore can be eliminated from the elect body of Christ. Very foolish, don't you think?

In response to the second point listed above, you suggest that God has commanded the Church to carry out the means...............

This also is a very foolish notion and it originates with the same ideaology of the missionary movement. God does not need a means nor does he use a means, the HOLY SPIRIT is the means by which all of the elect are quickened. If you carefully read Mark 16:15-16 you will find that it is the APOSTLES THAT ARE ADDRESSED and not the church congregation, the Lord told them to go, HE NEVER TOLD ANYONE TO "SEND" SOMEONE! The so called "great commission" was NEVER GIVEN to the Church it was given to the Apostles. The purpose of the Gospel has never been to regenerate dead alien sinners, it does however bring LIFE AND IMMORTALITY TO LIGHT in addition to being THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION TO THEM THAT BELIEVE! It is to the believer, not the un-believer. Isn't it strange that Paul would say "I pray brethren that I be delivered FROM unreasonable and wicked men!" According to your theory Paul should have been preaching to those folks and trying to get 'em saved, but instead he prayed to be delivered from them. Paul must have misunderstood the "great commission" to get the whole world saved!

In regards to point three above, you are basically crediting the Church and God as equal partners in the salvation of lost sinners! This is dishonoring to God and it rejects the Sovereignty of Almighty God. Remember the Lord said "all that the Father hath given me SHALL COME UNTO ME!" They will come and the only thing that will quicken them is the ................................Holy Spirit, not the mission board, not Billy Graham, not Oral Roberts, Not The boy scouts, not the Pope, not the river flowing through the valley, nothing but the quickening power of the Holy Spirit.

God does not need a means, He is more than able to do that which he promised!


I suppose that you will find exceptions for the native Americans, the mayans, Incas and Aztecs, Olmecs and others around the world that died having never heard the Gospel. YOu will probably suggest that Children haven't reached a certain "age of accountability" and that the purpose of witnessing is to "get others saved!" If you aren't careful, you are going to have about 8 or 10 different ways that folks are saved and the bible just simply does not teach such nonsense.

You are saved by the Blood of Christ! Ye ar saved by Grace!


not trying to be harsh just pointing out some common errors that the "all of the elect will hear and believe the gospel" supporters don't take into consideration.

By the way, those mission boards were about 1800 years too late getting formed, just think of how many more they could have saved? Just curious by the way, were do they put 'em when they save 'em?

This post was last modified: Wed Jul 30, 2008 03:02 PM by Elder Moore.

So you are saying you know who the "elect" are? Please enlighten us...

I can agree with most of what you are saying here, but I have a feeling you are leaning more towards a completely free-will outside the jurisdiction of God. If you believe in totalitarian free-will, then you believe that you are not "responsible" to the will of God?

I for one, do not believe in the hyper-calvinistic viewpoint of the doctrine of predestination. I firmly believe that man has a will, that God Himself sovereignly created, that will allow man, of his own choice, to reject Him. Predestination is a doctrine of the Lord God in His perfect wisdom to create man after His own image and predestine Him to be conformed to His own image. DOes man have the ability to consciously reject God's will? Absolutely.

On the other side of that coin, forgive the cliche, man most certainly is predestined. God knows every decision a man makes and I do believe that even the wicked are created specifically for a purpose (Prov. 16:4). Yes, I do believe there were men that created for the sole purpose of giving the gospel (Matt 3:1). As shown in the scriptures given at the beginning of the post, predestination is a correct doctrine, but not at the behest of man having the ability, or inability, to reject God.

If one performs a true doctrinal representation of predestination, he would be better off. Don't study the doctrine, study the bible.

A balance of God's Will and man's will will reveal more to a person than he realizes, but don't ever forget this one thing. We DO have a responsibility to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to follow His commandments and obey the bible as best as we possibly can. Aside from predestination and free-will, we would be better off doing whatever we could to please our Lord, like giving the Gospel to the lost, than worry about who is predestined or not.

Love in Christ,

Jim

This post was last modified: Wed Jul 30, 2008 03:30 PM by Jim.

Brother Jim,

I am unsure if your post is in response to my comments or someone else, please elaborate. If it is in regards to my comments, I hope that you understand that I would never think for a minute that I know who the Elect are. However, when you start eliminating those that are incapable of hearing and understanding, you are starting to limit narrow down the choices. This is a common error that goes hand in hand with those that argue that "all of the elect will hear the gospel."

yours in hope,

Elder Moore