|
divorce/remarriage
|
| Author |
Message |
maryks
Member
  
Posts: 141
Group: Registered
Joined: Jul 2004
Status:
Offline
Reputation: 0
|
divorce/remarriage
Looking for some info on divorce and remarriage.
Basically, I've never been affected by this issue (wow, you don't hear that much any more, do you?) and now am faced with a situation where I want all the scripture, in context, that I can gather, with explanation, becasue I don't know many people who would agree with what I have thought, and I need to know whether I've been right or wrong, change if need be, dig in if not! In the past, my personal thoughts on the matter have been:
-divorce is unscriptural
-those who divorce and remarry before coming to God should stay as they are, in that relationship, but no one should divorce and remarry with the intent of coming to God once they have remarried
-those who divorce and then come to God should remain single
-fornication can be considered a marriage contract in God's eyes--that couple has become one flesh, with or without the ceremony of society
-God forgives us when we are converted and come to Him, and yet we are still bound by these
I'm not sure where I came up with some of these views... I've never been in a church that taught them all, and though I have some scripture for them, don't have nearly enough to either back or refute them completely. Tried studying some of it out through different resources available, but none of my resources answered my questions.
thanks for your input!
|
|
| Tue Aug 03, 2004 01:25 AM |
|
 |
Jim
Unworthy Servant to Christ
      
Posts: 2,739
Group: Administrators
Joined: Jul 2004
Status:
Offline
Reputation: 8
|
maryks, we sure do get into some interesting topics, don't we?
Jesus says in Matthew 5:32:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."
I firmly believe marriage is a covenant that is not to be taken lightly. People who are not led together by Christ, should NOT get married! (I am not saying Christ cannot come into a marriage not led by Him) I am saying that God has a plan for everyone. If and how we choose to follow that plan is called free-will. We obviously would be better off following what God has layed out for us, but how many of us actually do?
I hope I do not sound too dogmatic, but I think Jesus is very clear on this subject. The only reason to divorce is adultery, and even in this reason I think there is room for forgiveness and Jesus would rather us do that than divorce.
Yes, there is beating, irreconcilabe differences, drug-abuse, alcoholism, and other very bad things happening in marriages that are no laughing matter. It happens every day and are rather the symptoms of a world in deprivation, not the root.
If someone has entered into a marriage and is having problems, PRAY! That is the only tool you have. Satan wants to see God's Word disobeyed. He thrives off of it, and it is so easy as we walk in our own power and will.
There are so many intolerable things in this world to a Christian, and unfortunately, there own marriage is one of them. We want so badly to be desired by someone, we will go to lengths to secure it, even against God's Word sometimes, and we end up making a mistake. However, we cannot justify something worse when we disobey the first time. When in doubt, follow God's commandment's.
As for the remarriage, I think the bible is also clear. You are not to remarry unless you are a widow/widower. Please, somebody help me here if I am wrong.
None of this was directed towards anyone. Unfortunately, my mother and father have been divorced since I was 17, but I have been in a happy, God-blessed and guided marriage for 5 years and my wife is a beautiful, spirit-filled woman, and all of that came from Christ.
Bear in mind this is for christians.
I hope this helps.
In Christ,
Jim
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
|
|
| Tue Aug 03, 2004 08:15 AM |
|
 |
jailpreacher
Junior Member
 
Posts: 9
Group: Registered
Joined: Jul 2004
Status:
Offline
Reputation: 0
|
Jim, I believe you hit it right on the mark, but I have always wondered about the issue of abandonment when adultery can't be proven. Can the individual remarry?
"For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."
|
|
| Tue Aug 03, 2004 07:26 PM |
|
 |
maryks
Member
  
Posts: 141
Group: Registered
Joined: Jul 2004
Status:
Offline
Reputation: 0
|
What if a couple in the world divorces, then one of the two remarries or commits fornication (after the divorce) and the other comes to God. In that case, they could not be reconciled, but does the one who came to God have the right to remarry in the church, or are they destined to remain single until the unsaved ex dies?
I'm an older single, never married, and there is a divorcee who has expressed interest in getting to know me, that's why I need to know. I listed what I believed in my previous post, but think that God may be approving this man's interest, and want to make sure it isn't just me making excuses for carnality. If I've misunderstood scripture on this, ok, but I want to make sure this is God--I don't want to give the devil a foothold!
|
|
| Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:24 AM |
|
 |
Jim
Unworthy Servant to Christ
      
Posts: 2,739
Group: Administrators
Joined: Jul 2004
Status:
Offline
Reputation: 8
|
OK, I will try to tackle both responses here. I pray that my own worldy wisdom has no place here.
It brings to mind this chapter of 1 Corinthians:
7:1
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
7:2
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
7:3
Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
7:4
The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
7:5
Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
7:6
But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
7:7
For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
7:8
I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
7:9
But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
7:10
And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
7:11
But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
7:12
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
7:13
And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
7:14
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
7:15
But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
7:16
For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
These are very strict and serious commandments and also brings to mind the conversation Jesus had with the Pharisees in the book of Mark:
10:2
And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
10:3
And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
10:4
And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
10:5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
10:6
But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
10:7
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
10:8
And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
10:9
What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
10:10
And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.
10:11
And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
10:12
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
These are profound statements!
However, here is my summary.
I believe Christ had to deal with the heart's of the Pharisees because of their blindness in following the Mosaic law and having no understanding of compassion and God's Grace(as evidenced by their rejection of the messiah), and this was just a subject they were using to try to trap Him. It just didn't work.
We also have another scenario with the Sadducees in the book of Mark:
12:18
Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,
12:19
Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
12:20
Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
12:21
And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
12:22
And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
12:23
In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
12:24
And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
12:25
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
We look at all of the commandments on divorce and we can reach one conclusion: Jesus does not condone it in any fashion, no, not even when adultery occurs. Believe it or not, Jesus understands our weakness and our hurt. He understands the pain involved when adultery occurs. This is understood in the following verse:
Matthew 5:32:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."
We really need to understand that Jesus wants nothing less than complete obedience, even 90% obedience in Christs' eyes is complete disobedience. We understand the desire to not be lonely. Paul states in 1 Cor. 7:7,
"For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that."
The reason he states this is because of Paul's complete surrender of his entire life to Jesus Christ. He did not want anything at all giving him cause to give way to his own fleshly desire, I use the term fleshly desire in a non sinful way.
We have a natural desire to marry and to be given in marriage. God designed us this way.
First, please understand, if two people are saved, and one of them is divorced (adultery not being the case) and they decide to get married (I am not saying this is God's will), you are not going to lose your salvation. Of course we all know that you cannot lose your salvation. To say such would be to say that Jesus did not do enough on the cross.
I know of pastors who refuse to marry anyone if either of the party has been previously divorced, and this is a commendable thing.
We cannot ignore God's commandments.
So here is my answer to the two questions. We have read many scripture on the issue of divorce and remarriage. We can ask many questions about what about this, what about that:
Now, let's first understand the issue of why the two got married in the first place. Was it in God's will? Does it matter? They still took an oath under God's covenant. Actually, I will stick with christians, being that unsaved are not under God's law.
If a christian gets married and it is not God's will, you have first sinned in doing this. Now a lot of people will say. " Should they get divorced? Well, if they are both christians, then the answer is no, if one of them is unsaved, Paul makes it clear in 1 Cor. 7:15:
"But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. "
When two christians are married, they should have God first and foremost in their marriage. Nothing is so bad in a marriage that cannot be reconciled with Prayer and fasting in our Lord Jesus Christ. Selfishness destroys a marriage, I think, faster than anything else. If divorce is imminent, which it is rmapant today, we need to take another look.
So you want to remarry? Are you sure God wants you to? If you do get remarried will God bless it? Would you want to be in a marriage that God cannot bless because of disobedience to His commandments. Remember, we can live in peace and not be lonely when Christ is the center of our life, Paul evidenced this. God will provide companionship through christian brethren and sisters. These are questions you need to ask yourself, and PRAY, PRAY, PRAY! Do not do this for yourself, it will probably just end in divorce yet again. You need to go into these questions with Christ first and foremost. Remember, it is not a situation of can you do something, but should you do something?
Think on this: If you are to marry, God will send you your mate! If you are to marry, God has that person for you. If you are in God's will, you will seek the most pure, God fearing person out there, naturally. It will be as your soul panting after the perfection of Christ. Y ou will want purity, you will want to serve and obey the living, true God. You will want to follow His commandments for your life. That will be the driving force, not your own desire to fulfill loneliness or flesh.
Seek your pastor's counsel. Seek the counsel of the church deacons. You must have unanimity in this decision. Get on your knees and pray. Seek God's Counsel and Wisdom, He will not steer you wrong! Remember:
Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths."
Jailpreacher: I don't know if I understand the question of abandonment. Did a divorce occur in this case?
Maryks: You are wise to seek God's wisdom on this, you better make sure! Remember, God said they two shall become one flesh. When you commit adultery, you have "become one flesh" with another person who is not your spouse. This, I believe, is the reason for the divorce and release thereof. Only he knows, or you may also know the circumstances of the divorce. If he is free according to God's commandments and you are sure this is the one for your after God's will, go to it. If not, please beware, it is better to be obedient in Christ and not be worldy happy, than to be disobedient and think you are going to be happy spiritually. The latter never occurs.
Wow! After posting this I saw how long-winded I was! I am so sorry!
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
|
|
| Wed Aug 04, 2004 09:28 AM |
|
 |
maryks
Member
  
Posts: 141
Group: Registered
Joined: Jul 2004
Status:
Offline
Reputation: 0
|
Thank you for your responses. One thing I have been intent on avoiding is marrying out of the will of God just so I could be married, to fulfill my own desires, to avoid the pressures of friends and family, or for any other reason. Carnal wisdom doesn't ever come close to knowing and doing the will of God, and His will is what I seek more and more.
In this case, I was considering the marriage unreconcilable b/c the ex-wife is remarried (Deut 24:4). I have been talking to my pastor, and seeking wisdom from elders as well; the pastor was the one who brought up the possibility to begin with, and the elders have encouraged the matter as well. I trust their wisdom in saying he is free to marry, yet I want to make sure it is the will of God for me to marry him. Also, I want to ensure that I believe it is OK, or not OK, for me to marry him, before the relationship develops... to do otherwise would only hurt those involved... "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin..."
Thank you for your input, it leaves much to consider, pray, and study out!
|
|
| Wed Aug 04, 2004 06:02 PM |
|
 |
George
Super Moderator
     
Posts: 1,541
Group: Super Moderators
Joined: Jul 2004
Status:
Offline
Reputation: 9
|
Hey guys, I happened across this thread and find it very interesting. Let me pose my personal situation to you and let you comment if you would.
I spent the vast majority of my life as an alcoholic/drug addict. During the time I was married for 28 years. I have no idea how the poor woman put up with me for that long. Anyway, she finally had enough and kicked me out. She filed for divorce soon after.
During the time of our marriage neither of us was saved. I came to Christ more than two years after she decided to call it quits. I have since surrendered completely to God, she has not and will not unless something really drastic happens.
I have written her and asked her forgiveness for all the things I did while we were married. I have also obviously prayed about it many, many times.
I have devoted my life to God, the study of the Bible and helping others with addiction problems through the ministry of Reformers Unanimous.
Can I get remarried without violating the teachings of the bible? I have no intention of doing it any time soon and possibly maybe not ever. I have been on my own for about 5 years now. While the companionship and the love that exists in a Christian marriage would be a wonderful thing to me I do not want to even consider it if it is wrong. I have tried to find it in my Bible. I thought that one of these days if the situation warranted or if it got to the point that I even wanted to ask a woman on a date I ought to discuss it with my pastor.
Let me know what you believe the Bible says about it.
YOurs in Christ,
George Groce
(Galatians 5:1) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
|
|
| Wed Aug 04, 2004 06:42 PM |
|
 |
Raymond
Administrator
      
Posts: 261
Group: Administrators
Joined: Dec 2003
Status:
Offline
Reputation: 3
|
Excellent post! I have to say that I have always agreed with Jims point of view. I have been married for almost 6 years. Me and my wife both agreed before marriage that divorce was not, and never was going to be an option. Im glad to say we are happily married.
But back to the issue at hand....., one day a couple of years ago I came across an article written by Puritan Preacher John Owen. It was a point of view that I had never before considered and have not really come to any concrete descision on. I will post a portion of it here and then link to the full article. Its not particularly easy reading, but read it slow and you will get the gist of what he is saying.
Secondly, If the innocent party upon a divorce be not set at liberty, then,–
1. He is deprived of his right by the sin of another; which is against the law of nature;– and so every wicked woman hath it in her power to deprive her husband of his natural right.
2. The divorce in case of adultery, pointed by our Saviour to the innocent person to make use of, is, as all confess, for his liberty, advantage, and relief. But on supposition that he may not marry, it would prove a snare and a yoke unto him; for if hereon he hath not the gift of continency, he is exposed to sin and judgment.
Thirdly, Our blessed Saviour gives express direction in the case, Matt. xix. 9, "Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery." Hence it is evident, and is the plain sense of the words, that he who putteth away his wife for fornication and marrieth another doth not commit adultery. Therefore the bond of marriage in that case is dissolved, and the person that put away his wife is at liberty to marry. While he denies putting away and marrying again for every cause, the exception of fornication allows both putting away and marrying again in that case; for an exception always affirms the contrary unto what is denied in the rule whereunto it is an exception, or denies what is affirmed in it in the case comprised in the exception; for every exception is a particular proposition contradictory to the general rule, so that when the one is affirmative, the other is negative, and on the contrary. The rule here in general is affirmative: He that putteth away his wife and marries another committeth adultery. The exception is negative: But he that putteth away his wife for fornication and marrieth another doth not commit adultery. Or they may be otherwise conceived, so that the general rule shall be negative, and the exception is affirmative: It is not lawful to put away a wife and marry another; it is adultery. Then the exception is: It is lawful for a man to put away his wife for fornication, and marry another. And this is the nature of all such exceptions, as I could manifest in instances of all sorts.
The rest of the article can be read here http://www.covenantofgrace.com/owen_of_m...ivorce.htm
It also might be worth keeping in mind that under the Law the Jews had a right to stone an adultress which would have set them free from the vows because of the womans death.
Add to this that a lot of preachers think that when Jesus said "saving for the cause of fornication" that this was referring to a betrothel period before the actual ceremony of marriage.
So I guess that takes me back to my position that divorce is not an option. Because its easy to see all the heart ache and confusion it causes. My parents divorced when I was 9 so I know first hand how it affects a family.
Im not sure I have been of any help, and was not trying to cloud the issue any more than it may already be to some. But hopefully youll be able to come to a well informed and thought out and most importantly scriptural descision.
Ray
|
|
| Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:25 PM |
|
 |
Guest
Unregistered
|
The only cause for divorce between 2 saved people would be death and fornication. In both cases they can remarry.
|
|
| Fri Aug 06, 2004 09:52 AM |
|
 |
Guest
Unregistered
|
I've been blessed with a wonderful Christian wife but I have known several other couples that have been affected by this issue, and one couple who is going through it now, so I have done a lot of studying on divorce and remarriage over the years. For reasons others have already documented above, I believe that desertion by the unbelieving spouse and adultery (fornication) are the only two reasons a Christian may divorce. I also believe that the innocent party may remarry in either of these situations.
There are limitless excuses for divorce, many of which sound good by human reasoning, such as physical abuse, but God didn't provide for that as an exception, and to divorce for a reason that God didn't allow is basically to take matters into your own hands, believing you know better than God. I believe that all things work together for good to them that love God, and I believe that "all things" really means all things, but I also believe that in extreme circumstances, 1 Co. 7: 10,11 applies, and that the wife may depart for her own safety or the safety of her children, but in that case should seek reconciliation or remain unmarried, as verse 11 instructs.
Regarding remarriage, the verse that's always stood out to me in the whole divorce/remarriage issue is Luke 16:18 (and the similar verses in Matthew and Mark): Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
I've thought a lot about this verse, and the only interpretation I can come up with is for anyone who is divorced, with the exception of the innocent party in adultery or abandoment, to remarry is to commit adultery. I'm no Greek scholar, but doesn't committeth mean an ongoing, continuous action? So unscriptural remarriage is not a one-time act of adultery, it is actualy continually living in adultery. In other words, it's not a marriage at all, and the only scriptural thing to do in such a case is to split up the "marriage."
I have to say that of the several couples I've known who have gone through this, none have done what I think is the right thing, but I haven't broken fellowship with any of them, because I don't feel I can judge them, never having gone through it myself. This is the conclusion I reached after much prayer. If I was their pastor it would be different, and I'm sure glad God didn't call me to that office. As it is, this is just my belief, which I'll share with anyone who asks, but ultimately it's between a couple and the Lord.
One problem I have with my own view on this is that I don't know if it matters whether the divorce happens before or after salvation. I don't see any exceptions in the Bible for divorces that happened before salvation, so I guess a divorce before salvation would still prohibit a Christian from remarrying after salvation. I guess you could say that once saved, a person is a new creature and therefore any prior divorce doesn't affect him, but I think that's stretching it and probably taking 2 Co. 5:17 out of context.
Another problem I have with my own view on this is that a man could "shack up" with a woman for a while, living as husband and wife without being married, then split up with the woman and marry someone else, and the marriage would be okay, but if he had married the first woman the second marriage wouldn't be okay, so in this case he's better off by living in sin with the first woman, because he wouldn't be living in adultery with the second woman.
Nevertheless, these two objections seem to fall under the category of "human reasoning" to me, so I just stick with what God said... and try to remember to thank Him every day that none of this applies to me directly...
|
|
| Tue Aug 10, 2004 01:56 PM |
|
 |
Jim
Unworthy Servant to Christ
      
Posts: 2,739
Group: Administrators
Joined: Jul 2004
Status:
Offline
Reputation: 8
|
Yes it is very often we find ourselves injecting human reasoning into situations such as these. not that it is wrong, it is only natural for us to do that. We live in a day and an age where divorce runs rampant, and I see too often the fact that we hit the symptoms of "this situation" and "that situation", and we tend to lose sight of the original problem.
I believe God has a foreordained plan for everyone that is born. Whether we choose to follow that plan or not is a part of our "free will". We may choose to follow God's plan for our lives or we may not.
The problem stems from entering into a marriage that is not part of God's plan, or is not blessed by God. We tend to want something so badly, we go ahead with what we want then ask God to bless it after the fact. Is this not a sinful attitude? I firmly believe that entering into a marriage that God did not want you to in the first place will require dedication, fasting, repentance, and prayer. You have entered into a covenant by God, but not planned by God. This is a very dangerous situation and can open the door for Satan's influence. As wed, married couples need to seek Christ first and foremost in a marriage. It needs to represent the sanctity that is given by God's Holy Grace. You are becoming "one flesh" Matthew 19:5-6, therefore no longer being "yourself" as an individual, but "yourselves" as a whole individual, does that make sense?
As I said earlier in the post, divorce should, and can be avoided at all cost. Forgiveness can be found in
any situation. You just have to allow the Holy Spirit to work in your life.
If salvation is an issue, there are other things more important than the divorce issue (please do not make the mistake of thinking I am desensitizing the divorce issue here). The persons invloved need to recognize the bigger problem than divorce.
If we live in the Holy Spirit and our marriage is guided by Christ, divorce will never be an issue! God can and will save a marriage because it is a covenant under His establishment. We must never forget that. God's grace is sufficient for us. 2 Cor. 12:9
In Christ,
Jim
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
|
|
| Tue Aug 10, 2004 02:18 PM |
|
 |
Guest
Unregistered
|
I agree, of course, that forgiveness can be found in any situation, but if a believer's remarriage constitutes a continuous state of adultery, wouldn't repenting mean that the adulterous relationship has to be terminated in order to restore fellowship with God? My belief is that the remarriage is not a marriage in the eyes of God. They might have gone through the ceremony and said the vows, but then again, these days we have homosexuals doing the same thing and those "marriages" certainly aren't valid in the eyes of God.
|
|
| Tue Aug 10, 2004 06:23 PM |
|
 |
maryks
Member
  
Posts: 141
Group: Registered
Joined: Jul 2004
Status:
Offline
Reputation: 0
|
As for the living in sin with the first woman, then marrying another and being ok b/c never married before, "the two shall become one flesh" is not talking about just married people
1 Corinthians 6:16
What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
In this case the man in question was in an adulterous relationship, and of a sort that not even the gentiles would have. They had not had a "wedding" in the eyes of God or the world, but still God saw them as united as one, or 'married', through the relationship.
Now, that's a little tough to swallow, I know. Especially in today's immoral/amoral society.
Now again, one minister put it this way: OK, so you say the 'innocent party' can remarry, but tell me, who is the 'innocent party'? Did he run out on her on a whim, or did she withold due benevolence from him so long, that he fell? Is she innocent? Did she just fall for another man, or had he witheld his love to a point where he was trying to make her trip, so that he could remarry? Is he innocent? Of course, I know there are instances when there truly is an innocent party. But how do we know?
Jer 17
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Now, one more thing. If a person commits a crime and then starts living for God, does he get off free b/c his sins are covered by the blood? I know there are things I did before I came to God that I still pay for, memories that I wish I could forget, temptations that are stronger, and so forth, even though I'm forgiven. Sin is like leprosy... and a person can be healed of leprosy but not be whole... sometimes the sickness is gone, but the scars remain.
Luke 17
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
Wow, ok, I needed to hear some of that just for myself, and for another area of my life. Sorry for the length!!
|
|
| Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:08 AM |
|
 |
Jim
Unworthy Servant to Christ
      
Posts: 2,739
Group: Administrators
Joined: Jul 2004
Status:
Offline
Reputation: 8
|
You know, It is starting to feel like we are debating law here, dissecting commandments. Remember, we are no longer under "the law". We as, Christians, are under the blood of Jesus Christ. I am not making arguments trying to say that we should not obey the commandments, however trying to change the spirit of how we view things.
Ryan: I was not referring to the laws of remarriage in my earlier post, I was speaking solely on the prevention of divorce and forgiveness if physical adultery occurs during a marriage. But yes, if a marriage means being in a state of adultery, it should be avoided. Should it be terminated? I think yes. It would mean the same thing as continuing in an adulterous relationship while you were still married and not stopping and still expect your marriage to be blessed by God.
Maryks: Yes, that is correct, whenever physical intercource occurs between a man and a woman, they become "one flesh". This is exremely dangerous for an unmarried couple. We do not see the complete spiritual ramifications of this, however we know it is a commandment from God to NOT do it.
Remember, Jesus reprimanded the Pharisees and Sadducees for their blind law-following. When we start dissecting law and commandments, we lose sight of the bigger picture.
If there is any question of this mans' previous relationship, and it is causing confusion, then we must refer to 1 Cor. 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.", and I would avoid the relationship.
I would be very cautious of this and seek God's will.
Let's start looking at this post in another light. Satan will try to keep christians wrapped up in "The bible says this and the bible says that". We are made perfect through the blood of Jesus Christ. We have our old self that continually wants to rise out of the ashes and exalt itself against the Holy Spirit and make you remember bad previous things you have done/ not done. Satan will do this too. Our focus needs to be upon Christ and serving Him, not ourselves. We should have a strong desire to obey God's Word and stop trying to justify things we want to do, hoping God will bless it, because that is a wrong heart. Remember this:
Matt.6:33
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you"
Jesus is speaking of our very being and character. If we seek Him first in all things, then everything else will fall into place. We wouldn't have to ask about these things. Another answer, if God did not send this man to you, he is not for you, regardless of anything else. That is the question you need answered. Prayer is the key.
We just have a tendancy, especially in today's times, to seek our will first, and ask God to bless later, much to our chagrin....
Please take this with a gracious heart, it was given with a heart in Christ.
Until Christ comes,
Jim
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
|
|
| Wed Aug 11, 2004 01:29 PM |
|
 |
Guest
Unregistered
|
I don't see how 1 Corinthians 6:16 is talking about a man in an adulterous relationship. In the context of the verse, it doesn't even appear to refer to any man in particular, just a generalazation. The point of this passage is that we are members of the body of Christ and therefore we should not take an unbeliever in marriage, because that would cause the unbeliver to be unnaturally joined to the body of Christ as the unbeliver would be one flesh with the believer, who is a member of Christ's body.
I believe the Bible is clear that a relationship of fornication is not marriage. In John 4:18, Jesus said to the woman at the well, "For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly." So the woman is living in fornication with this man, but Jesus says the man is not her husband; they're not married.
This same truth is shown in Joseph's relationship with Mary. Mary is called Joseph's wife many times before they have a sexual relationship. So sex does not equal marriage.
As far as the "innocent party," maybe I shouldn't use that phrase. When I say "innocent party," I just mean the person who according to the Bible has a right to divorce, and therefore a right to remarry (as the person is "not under bondage"). This would be the person whose spouse has either deserted or committed adultery. The Bible doesn't give any excuses for fornication or abandoning your spouse. It doesn't matter if my wife has failed to render due benevolence, I am still obligated to be faithful to her. My marriage to her is a picture of Christ's love for the church. If I don't fulfill my obligations to Christ, no matter how badly I fail, He will never be unfaithful to His promises to me, and he will never leave me. In the same manner, I have no excuse to be unfaithful to my wife, and no excuse to desert her. If I do, no matter what she has done to me, no matter how justifiable my actions are from a humanistic standpoint, I am guilty in the eyes of God and my wife is the "innocent party."
|
|
| Wed Aug 11, 2004 01:32 PM |
|
 |
|
|