Bro Jim may have posted this elsewhere, and if so, please tolerate my redundancy. For many years I was a registered Republican, until I saw how they continued to become more like the centrist Democrats - in other words, there wasn't much difference between the two, regarding things we, as Christians, hold sacred. I then saw several qualities in the Libertarian Party that I liked, and became a registered Libertarian (Liberty). A while back, Bro Jim mentioned the Constitution Party and some of the things they stand for, so I checked into it and became a registered Constitutionalist. Here is the preamble to the Constitution Party's platform:

The Constitution Party gratefully acknowledges the blessing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of these United States. We hereby appeal to Him for mercy, aid, comfort, guidance and the protection of His Providence as we work to restore and preserve these United States.

This great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been and are afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.

The goal of the Constitution Party is to restore American jurisprudence to its Biblical foundations and to limit the federal government to its Constitutional boundaries.

The Constitution of these United States provides that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." The Constitution Party supports the original intent of this language. Therefore, the Constitution Party calls on all those who love liberty and value their inherent rights to join with us in the pursuit of these goals and in the restoration of these founding principles.

The U.S. Constitution established a Republic rooted in Biblical law, administered by representatives who are Constitutionally elected by the citizens. In such a Republic all Life, Liberty and Property are protected because law rules.

We affirm the principles of inherent individual rights upon which these United States of America were founded:

* That each individual is endowed by his Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are the rights to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness;
* That the freedom to own, use, exchange, control, protect, and freely dispose of property is a natural, necessary and inseparable extension of the individual's unalienable rights;
* That the legitimate function of government is to secure these rights through the preservation of domestic tranquility, the maintenance of a strong national defense, and the promotion of equal justice for all;
* That history makes clear that left unchecked, it is the nature of government to usurp the liberty of its citizens and eventually become a major violator of the people's rights; and
* That, therefore, it is essential to bind government with the chains of the Constitution and carefully divide and jealously limit government powers to those assigned by the consent of the governed.

If enough Christians would get onboard with the Constitutionalist's focus, determination, and platform, we might just get this thing back ontrack!

To be honest I don't understand how a Christian can be a republican, democrat, Libertarian, Constitutional, or whatever.

I don't mean nor do I want to turn this into a debate, I just want to politely mention this so that anyone who reads this topic will at least think about this. Years back I did not understand this, but after I kept studying this out I was convicted that I am not to be yoked together in no secular organization that contains both believers and unbelievers. I know I'm a minority in thinking this, but these Holy Scriptures either mean what they say or they don't.

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
2 Cor 6:14-18 (KJV)

Jerry, the Apostle Paul was not only a Christian, but also a ROMAN CITIZEN! Re-read your Bible and see that Paul knew and obeyed the law - Romans 13. If you want to actually follow your premise to its logical conclusion, you should not have a driver's license, SSN, shop at the grocery stores (plenty of unbelievers there), or have any business whatsoever with ANY governmental organizations, i.e. paying taxes, voting, referendums, county board meetings, etc. Couple that with watching or listening to ANY newscasts. This "bunker mentality" of many American Christians is appalling. What do you think The Lord meant when He taught that we are supposed to be salt and light - pacifists, that sit on the sidelines and watch others fight the battles? Are you a soldier of the cross or a Christian critic? If Christians in the 16-1700's followed your perceived doctrine, there'd be NO America now.

Think about all you said, really think about it, and be sure to consider the verses.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
2 Cor 6:14-18 (KJV)

And of course Paul was a Roman citizen, no one has ever said he was not that I know of.

Remember what I stated.

My quote.
"I don't mean nor do I want to turn this into a debate"

Hey Jerry, I see what your saying but I have to agree with Mongol. We would have to stop shopping at the grocery stores under the way your explaining this. It would also mean that I was unequally yolked as a Deputy Sheriff because most of the folks I worked with were not saved. Law Enforcement is God appointed in our government Romans 13, and it was my ministry. I am still republican registered but am too put out with them, however, it does not mean im yoked together with them. Thats like saying I am yoked with all the unbelievers in my town because we all vote on who will be the Mayor. I am considering what you have said, just at this time seems its taken beyond its intent.

I know your not looking for debate on this an neither am I. I jus wanted to post my view and let you know Im trying to understand yours.

God Bless

Tim

SBC Sever Ties With One Abomination
Associated Baptist Press:
It took messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting June 23 only 30 seconds to sever a 125-year relationship with a prominent Texas congregation because of the church's perceived toleration of gay members. Voting in the opening session of their annual meeting in Louisville, the messengers chose overwhelmingly to dismiss Broadway Baptist Church in Fort Worth. Editor note: Southern Baptists should sever ties with the Republican Party because of its affiliation with the same type of abomination. It is an abomination for Christians to be in political concord with the Republican Party -- approving of homosexuality..

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."
II Corinthians 6: 14-18

Posted by Editor at June 25, 2009 07:55 AM

http://www.covenantnews.com/blog/archives/057572.html

Seems I'm not the only one who understand this. But I understand its hard to break those ties that we have been use to having for years & years in this world, whether its at work or play.

Its easier to point out the faults of the speaker than it is to accept the message. I recall reading in the Bible when Jesus spoke.

59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them,
John 6:59-61 (KJV)

They murmured because of the truths Jesus proclaimed. The only thing is Jesus was perfect, me, I'm not, you can find many faults in me, even sin, for I fall short of the glory of God. In fact, and messenger that comes along that proclaims God's truths, you will be able to find faults in as well as sin within them.

Any Christians that has ties to a job and or club which tells them to do something and or that club and or employer does something that goes against God, them you should part company.

Of course we can have many excuses why not, it might be a hardship on us and or our family, we surely would not want to face any hard ship because we stand up for what is right in the sight of God & Christ, would we?

Seems I remember the Bible telling us if we stand up for God and His ways that we would suffer hardships, even persecution.

I might add, as we learn better, we need to do better, will all of us ever get perfect as Jesus was, no, not until we get to heaven, but until them we ought to improved and be in the process of overcoming things of this world, even if it cost us, even if its a sacrifice, even if it brings persecutions on us.

Please, I'm not trying to cut into anyone and I'm not complaining about what anyone has posted or said towards me. But I am trying the best I can to show where we all can improve.

Brother Jerry,

I too will have to agree with Mongol on this one. Are you condoning isolationism? Like you said in another post where I agreed with you, that Jesus did not do these things. He mingled with sinners, yet did not those things they did.

Looking at the Constitution Party, you probably still have not studied them or been to their website. They are a christian-based political organization desiring to reduce the current federal governments size, go back to the principles of the Constitution, and reinstitute Godly principles.

Have you forgotten 1 Timothy?:

Anything that is contrary to biblical doctrine is to be made law for those who do not adhere to such. Who is to establish such law? the church? No, it is government.

Maybe you have also forgotten Israel desiring a worldly king istead of God the Father? They got King Saul.

Regardless of what our convictions are about leaders and government and political parties, they are here and we do have to deal with them. Nobody says you have to be a member of one, but if a christian desires a political party, then they really have no reason to choose other than a god-fearing consevative one, and the only one that exists, to my knowledge, is the Constitutional Party.

We can't just stand idly by and let our governement take over our lives....

Love in Christ,

Jim

This post was last modified: Thu Jun 25, 2009 05:23 PM by Jim.

That is not what scripture says. Scripture simply says:

2 Cor. 6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

I am truly not trying to sound harsh or be condescending, please do not take it that way, but if you believe what you have stated at the top, then you cannot attend church anymore either. Will you tell me there are no unbelievers in church?

If you think about what Paul is telling the church at Corinth, you will see that what he is saying is not to yolk yourselves in influence with what the ungodly is doing. I believe this to mean fraternizing with another person in such a way with the ungodly that their unbelief begins to coach, or influence, you.

If the principles of a political party are ungodly, or their actions, then yes, you cannot stay with them, but if their goal is as such like the Constitutional Party, which is biblically oriented, then I say there is no reason NOT to join with them in the fight against Washington.

The attending of an organization by unbelievers is not the bad thing, it is the influence of their unbelief which causes it to be bad, and that can be stopped, and/or they can be kicked out of that organization.

Love in Christ,

Jim

This post was last modified: Thu Jun 25, 2009 05:36 PM by Jim.

If your in a secular club, organization, that has unbelievers in it, you are unequally yoked together with unbelievers.

Again, where is the scripture to support the fact of it being a "secular organization"?

You are telling people they are sinning because they are a member of the NRA, YMCA, Sons of Confederate Veterans, VFW, or any other affiliation or organization.

That's very thin, and absolutely no scripture to back it up. Let's go ahead and take it to the extreme and say since you are a member of earth, you are sinning because you are unequally yoked together with unbelievers who walk the earth. Oh, and since you shop at Bi-Lo and use a Bi-Lo bonus card, you are unequally yoked with unbelievers because there are unbelievers who shop at Bi-Lo.

Yes, this sounds extreme, but in essence, that is exactly what you are saying.

This post was last modified: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:06 PM by Jim.

John R. Rice of "The Sword of the Lord," has a small booklet, 23 pages, entitled, 'The Unequal Yoke.' When I bought it back in 98 it cost all of 50 cents, it explains this subject quite well. Sad to sad very few preachers preach or teach this, but it is in the Bible, its is there for a reason.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1 John 4:4-6 (KJV)

Are we truly overcomes if we are yoked together with infidels? No!

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Cor 6:15-16 (KJV)

So why in the world would a child of God want to be in any kind of secular organization yoked together with infidels? What is it a child of God has in common with them? They speak of the world and the world heareth them, we speak of God and godly things.

I do know how hard it is to change what one has been use to doing. I know to when we hear something that we never have been taught our 1st reaction is to reject it. This is not something I hatched up, its right there in the Bible, and its taught throughout the Bible. Study it out for yourself.

I might add, I'm not trying to talk anyone into something. What I'm trying to do is point to the Bible and what it has to say about this subject. Besides that, if I could talk you into it someone else could come along and talk you out of it. But I feel if God convicts you about something no one will come along and talk you out of it.

Am I saying not to witness to the lost? No! We have to live in this world, but remember, this world is not our home, but its all the infidels have.

I might add, you want change the world, but you might have a part in changing a heart. There is no time to lose, Jesus could come tomorrow, why waste time on worldly things when its a matter of a soul going to hell & or to heaven.

I might add, to go along with the world one never has to take a stand, but if they walk with God they will make many stands while living this life.

We've been down this road before, I've pointed to what the Bible has to say about it, little I can do besides that.

Right you are, brother Jim.

One should not read anything more into 2 Cor. 6:14 other than what the verse actually says.

I don't see the Bible telling Christians to have no influence on the affairs of goverment. It's the leftists, humanists, athiests, etc. that want us to keep out of politics so they can have all the influence. It would be foolish for us to cave into their demands for no Biblical reason.

Bro Jim - Upholder,
Wasn't Paul a Roman citizen? Didn't he invoke obeying the law and also knew the Roman law to the point of quoting it to his persecutors? I'm just curious, Jerry, should Christians in America, sit back while pagans make oppressive laws that we could have turned back, with God's blessing and mandate as salt & light? Where's the scriptural response, Jerry?

This post was last modified: Fri Jun 26, 2009 04:58 AM by Mongol Servant.

A question for you, Brother Jerry: The army would fit your description of a secular organization that contains unbelievers. Does this mean that Christians who join the army, navy, or air force are "unequally yoked together with unbelievers"?

Aren't you a former soldier yourself?

If there is nothing wrong with a Christian joining the army and living in close quarters with unbelievers, then why do you criticize Mongol Servant for joining an organization just because it happens to have some unbelieving members?

This post was last modified: Fri Jun 26, 2009 07:55 AM by Upholder.

Brother Jerry, you have said a couple of times that you have provided scripture to support your stance. I can find no where in my Bible where it indicates this has anything to do with "secular" things. i believe Brother Jim asked you to provide scripture which supports that viewpoint. I will ask the same of you.

Do some study on this subject. The main prohibition here is to not be yoked together in idolatry or sin. It does not mention anything about "secular." As was said previously in this thread if one takes things to the extreme you profess you would not be able to attend Church any longer. My goodness you would not even be able to go to the doctor when necessary. Doctor's visit are quite often very intimate. And yet the Bible says to not do this. So what is the alternative? My oncologist is a Mormon. That makes him an unbeliever. So should I stop seeing him and let this cancer slowly kill me?

If you dig into the subject you will that the phrase "unequally yoked together" indicates an intimate relationship. It is refering to a close friendship or something of that nature. I do not know if you are in the habit of consulting commentaries or not but if you read Albert Barnes, John Gill or Kenneth Wuest it will really shed some light on the subject.

In Christ,
George