From another thread:

Interesting, that is not what your pope says.

Jim,

I really do not care what Benedict XVI believes about that particular subject matter.

It seems like you are simply living for yourself, not according to the bible, not according to the catholic church, not according to anything other than what you believe with no basis for backing it up.

Jim,

I have the Bible as the basis for a lot of the beliefs that I have. The beliefs that I have that come from the Bible are1)The Bible is the Word of God,(2)Creation from the Book of Genesis,(3)The Deity of Christ,(4)The Holy Trinity,(5)The Death, Burial and Resurrection of Christ,(6)The Ten Commandments,(7)The Virgin Birth of Christ,(The Lord's Prayer,(9)Baptism,(10)Confirmation(The impartation of the Holy Spirit) from the Book of Acts,(11)Confession of sins to Christ,(12)Holy Communion,(13)Marriage,(14)Holy Ordination of Priests and (15)Anointing of the Sick from the Book of Saint James.

The beliefs that I have that do not come from the Bible are1)I still believe that it is ok to Baptize infants as well as adults. I do not believe that Baptism imparts salvation to the infant or adult. I believe that all Baptism is is just a dedication of infants and adults to Christ. I believe that because it is more logical then believing that Baptism imparts salvation to the infant or adult. I also believe that Baptism is one of the 7 Sacraments that Christ instituted.,(2)I believe that Confession(Communual Reconciliation Service where sins are confessed directly to Christ. I do not believe in Individual Confession) is one of the 7 Sacraments that Christ instituted.,(3)I still believe that Holy Communion is one of the 7 Sacraments that Christ instituted. I do not believe that the bread and wine are the actual body and blood of Christ. I accept the Lutheran doctrine of Consubstantiation instead.,(4)I still believe that Confirmation is one of the 7 Sacraments that Christ instituted.,(5)I still believe that Marriage is one of the 7 Sacraments that Christ instituted.,(6)I still believe that Holy Ordination of Priests is scriptural and one of the 7 Sacraments that Christ instituted.,(7)I still believe that Anointing of the Sick is one of the 7 Sacraments that Christ instituted.,(I still believe that Saint Peter was the First Pope,(9)I still believe in praying the Hail Mary Prayer(Just the first half because the first half comes from the Bible. I do not pray the second half of the Hail Mary Prayer because the second half does not come from the Bible.),(10)I still believe in making the Sign of the Cross(Luther continued to make the Sign of the Cross after receiving Christ as his Savior and Luther remained saved.) and (11)I still believe in praying the Glory Be Prayer(Prayer to the Holy Trinity) because praying to the Holy Trinity is scriptural.

OK then, may I ask you a question?

Jim,

Catholics are not unbelievers and infidels because Catholics believe that Christ is God and believe in the Holy Trinity the same as Protestants do. An unbeliever and an infidel is someone who does not believe that Christ is God and does not believe in the Holy Trinity.

So I guess all satanists are not infidels?

I have already stated, you may not remember, that satanists also believe in the trinity and in Jesus Christ.

And also are you stating that as long as I believe these two things, no matter how much I add to it, it makes no difference?

If I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and I know that God is sovereign, then it is perfectly ok to pray to Saints and Mary for interecession for me here on earth?

When are you going to understand that just believing something according to your logical mind has nothing to do with salavation?

Jim

Jim,

The information that I read about Satanists states that Satanists do not believe that Christ is God, they do not believe in God the Father and they do not believe in the Holy Trinity and thus Satanists are infidels. Anybody with half a brain knows that atheists, pagans, Satanists, Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, Confuscinists, Janists and other Eastern religions are infidels. And it is unscriptural to pray to the Virgin Mary and the Saints to intercede before God the Father.

The Catholic Catechism state otherwise, and you are a member of the catholic church.

If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, then well.......... guess what?


Oh....and do you believe everything you read?

Jim,

I don't care what the Catholic Catechism states about anything. Just because I am a member of the Catholic Church does not mean that I have to believe all Catholc doctrine. That is totally illogical to think that all Catholics have to believe all Catholic doctrine. I am not some uneducated ignoramace who can not think logically and analytically. I am a college graduate who thinks logically and analytically and I have studied Catholic doctrine in a logical and analytical manner and I have deciphered which Catholic doctrines are logical and scriptural and should be adhered to, which Catholic doctrines are illogical and unscriptural and should be dispensed with, which parts of the Mass are logical and scriptural and should be participated in and which parts of the Mass are illogical and unscriptural and should not be participated in. I got the information about Satanists beliefs from looking up Satanist beliefs on the internet and it states that Satanists do not believe in God the Father or believe that Christ is God, do not believe in the Holy Trinity and do not believe any Christian doctrine.

Jim,

What was so funny about the previous paragraphical summation? The previous paragraphical summation contains logical statements.

I have the Bible as the basis for a lot of the beliefs that I have. The beliefs that I have that come from the Bible are1)The Bible is the Word of God,(2)Creation from the Book of Genesis,(3)The Deity of Christ,(4)The Holy Trinity,(5)The Death, Burial and Resurrection of Christ,(6)The Ten Commandments,(7)The Virgin Birth of Christ,(The Lord's Prayer,(9)Baptism,(10)Confirmation(The impartation of the Holy Spirit) from the Book of Acts,(11)Confession of sins to Christ,(12)Holy Communion,(13)Marriage,(14)Holy Ordination of Priests and (15)Anointing of the Sick from the Book of Saint James.

Robert, You do well to believe.

But

This goes against you belief that Satanists do not believe. As does

and

and

You mentioned Luther. One thing that Luther taught was that the Pope is the Antichrist. Luther was not alone. Practically all the reformers did also. as well as the underground Church from about 1100 AD.

The title Vicar of Christ (Latin) has the same meaning as Antichrist (Greek).

Davo,

It is totally illogical for anybody to assume that all Catholics believe and adhere to all Catholic doctrine. Only Catholics who are not college graduates, can not think logically and analytically, can not think for themselves and are being deceived by Satan would believe and adhere to all Catholic doctrine.

A Catholic who is a college graduate like I am should be able to think logically and analytically and decipher for themselves which Catholic doctrines are logical and scriptural and should be adhered to, which Catholic doctrines are illogical and unscriptural and should be dispensed with, which parts of the Mass are logical and scriptural and should be participated in and which parts of the Mass are illogical and unscriptural and should be dispensed with. If I could do that then I expect other Catholics to do the same thing.

According to all the information that I read about Satanists they do not believe that Christ is God and thus they do not believe in the Holy Trinity and Satanists do not believe that Satan is real.

Luther may have left the Catholic Church but Luther retained the majority of Catholic doctrines in the Lutheran Church according to Luther's Small and Large Catechisms and other writings by Luther.