I do not intend to get involved in any type of argument here. This thing that I have cut and pasted above bears rebuttal.

First of all understand I am an extremely conservative, fundamental Baptist. However I am a Christian first, foremost and always. The reason for my position as a fundamental Baptist is that they are the closest I have found to actual Biblical doctrine in their practice. I believe the Bible to be the Word of God, inerrant and preserved as such for the believer. I also believe the King James Bible to be the perfect Word of God in the English language.

That being said, the thing I cut and pasted above is the most frightening load of hogwash I have ever run across. I was quite astounded by it. Just because someone is a college graduate they have been given some kind of rare gift of being able to think logically and analytically? Wow! Is that like some kind of spiritual gift?

We as human beings are not supposed to think logically and rationally when it comes to Biblical doctrine. I say Biblical doctrine as opposed to Catholic doctrine because if it is not in the Bible it ought not be taken as doctrine. We are supposed to think within the parameters of the Holy Spirit of God. That is clearly spelled out in the Bible.

Why on earth would anyone who supposedly has been given the gift of analytical and logical thinking stay in a place that professes any kind of false doctrine? It was clearly stated in the thing above that some of the Roman Catholic doctrine is wrong. If it is wrong then nothing they do or say can be trusted after that and any person tha is capable of thinking ought get out of that place and quickly.

Jesus said that if you build your house (life) on false doctrine (the earth) the ruin of your house will be great. My word, are you aware of what that means??? Study that passage. It means that if you build your house on anything other than the true faith and doctrine of Jesus Christ as provided to us by the Holy Spirit of God you are going to Hell! You are not saved. Period. It is right there in the Bible in Christ's own words!

You are commanded many times over in the Bible to do things as Jesus would have you to do them. Jesus is the Son of God and God the Son. If you only do the things you are commanded to do by the Bible you are useless to God. If you only do the things we are commanded to do by God's Holy Word we are only doing what we are supposed to do anyway. How many times do we not follow the things we are commanded to do? That makes us useless to God. We must get within His Will.

That being said it is very easy to get into the New Testament and find many,many passages of scripture and Biblical doctrine which state the Roman Catholic Church is wrong and it is involved with antiChrist. For that reason alone anyone that is involved in that Church need get out of their quickly and convert to Christianity.

After that, the JUDGMENT! Any one who is involved willingly and knowingly in any Church that preaches and practices false doctrine of any kind will face the Judgment Seat of Christ and have to explain their sin to Him. God help you in that day because you will persish. How can I say that? It is again spelled out in Scripture.

If you are in Christ (saved), you are a new creature (born again). Old things are passed away. All things are become new. That does not include going to a church that practices false doctrine and still has our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ hanging on the cross. I serve a risen Saviour!!! If Christ is still on the cross you might as well throw your Bible in the garbage and go out and eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. And after that the Judgment!

The Bible claerly says that once you are saved all things are of God. Nothing of false doctrine but of God. And God has reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, who loved us and gave Himself for us (Gal 2:20). It has been shown above that if you are involved in false doctrine (not doing the things Jesus has said to do) you are not one of His.

My word Mr. Roman Catholic, quit following false doctrine and the false Church, get yourself out of there and into line with the Will of God before it is too late. Again the Will of God is spelled out in the Bible. If you read something there that your church professes as doctrine and is clearly wrong according to the Bible you are in sin if you stay there. Unconfessed sin and in danger of mortal consequences. My Bible says the wages of sin is death. Not sins and not little sins, medium sins and large sins as the Roman Catholics practice, but sin; singular. Any time we commit a sin we are subject to death. If you continue willingly in sin, you are in grave danger of death and the judgment.

You know it is a good thing to do the Will of God and yet you continue to attend a church that violates one of the Commandments in it's very make up by having an image of Christ in the Church. The Bible says, thou shalt NOT take unto thee any graven image or any image of anything in heaven.... My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is in heaven!!! Let me say that again, my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is in heaven. If you make an image of Him you are in sin. If you regard that image you are in sin. If you continue to viloate God's will by attending in a place where the Bible and God's Holy Word is completely ignored you are in grave danger.

Ah my friend, perhaps you ae rolling along and thinking everything is just grand in this life, But after that, the judgment. If I were you I would spend a lot of time on my knees getting right with God. I will tell you two things of a certainty. It is much easier to get on my knees myself than to have Him put me there. It is also a fact that if we do not practice a state of humility, God will humiliate us.

What does that have to do with the Roman Catholic church? By continuing to subscribe to an organization that does not deserve to be given the name of Church, you are within the will and things of man and therefore involved in a state of personal pride rather than the humility of the mind that was in Christ Jesus and you WILL be humiliated by God at some point.

I pray you don't ever get to the point in your life that I got in mine. I had no choice but to surrender completely to God. I had to give up all the things of man. I cannot live outside of and I trust my God to provide for me in even the tiniest things of life. I must obey Him in even the simple things else I will return to my former lifestyle and I will die. It will not be a pretty death either and God forbid I take someone else with me when I do go. But praise be to God I am far, far away from that possibility because when the Bible says it I not only believe it I do my very best, with a great deal of help from the Holy Spirit, to stay within the Will of God. That Will for me is found in my Bible. I not only believe the King James Bible from cover to cover, I believe the cover also. It says, "Holy Bible" right there on the cover.

The bottom line is that I will pray for you that you do not spend eternity cast into the lake of fire and cut off from God for all eternity. You may think you are saved but if you continue in that organization knowing it has even one false doctrine I urge you to really think about getting into a real Church and getting right with God. This is your eternal soul we are talking about. Eternity is a long time. I believe it would be quite uncomfortable there for even a minute, much less eternity.

In Christ,
George Groce

George,

The Catholic doctrines that I believe and adhere to are biblical and scriptural doctrines because they come from the Bible. A college graduate is supposed to think logically and analytically in all matters and that includes the doctrines of Christianity. The Catholic doctrines that are biblical are logical doctrines to believe in and adhere to. I do not believe and adhere to any of the false, illogical and unscriptural doctrines of the Catholic Church because I have dispensed with the false, illogical and unscriptural doctrines of the Catholic Church. I have also dispensed with the illogical and unscriptural parts to the Mass because I do not participate in the illogical and unscriptural parts to the Mass.

Just who do you think you are anyway to state that eventhough I received Christ as Savior that if I do not leave the Catholic Church and join a Fundamentalist or Evangelical Church that I will go to Hell? Are you stating that belonging to a Fundamentalist or Evangelical Church is required for salvation and gaining entrance into Heaven? Say that a Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or a Mainline Protestant receives Christ as their Savior on their death bed? Would they go to Heaven when they pass away eventhough they did not have time to leave the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church or a Mainline Protestant Church and join a Fundamentalist or Evangelical Protestant Church? If the answer is yes that they would go to Heaven when they pass away then that takes care of that nonsense that when someone receives Christ as their Savior that they have to leave the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church or Mainline Protestant Church and join a Fundamentalist or Evangelical Protestant Church or else they will not gain entrance into Heaven because church membership has no bearing on salvation and gaining entrance into Heaven.

When everybody passes away and they stand before Christ the subject of church membership does not enter the equation because the only thing that Christ requires in order to gain entrance into Heaven is that everybody had received Him as their Savior. Nothing else is required for salvation and gaining entrance into Heaven.

No sir, I said no such thing. In fact I did not mention any kind of Church requirement for Salvation. However the fact remains that if one (anyone) professes to be a Christian and does not do the things required of them by the Bible they are "none of His" and therefore not saved. That is pretty well spelled out all over the Bible. I quoted some of them from scripture in my message.

Let us use the example of the use of the word "father" in addressing a priest. Here is what Christ had to say about that.

If you address a priest as father you are in violation of a commandment of Christ and therefore show that you do not believe Him and are "none of His." That is rather logical and analytical thinking, is it not? It is also in accordance with Scripture.

There are many, manyinstances int he New Testament where the Bible shows tha the Roman Catholic Church is a false church. If one continues to willingly stay in such a church after reading of it's falsity in the Bible one has chosen to ignore our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ and is in sin. Staying openly and willingly in sin is a sign of not being saved since the Bible says tha a saved indiviudal will not do that. It is there, all you have to do is read it.

There it is again. He says He knows you not. That means you are not saved. Again I urge you to reconsider your affiliation with the Roman Catholic Church and your relationship with God.

In Christ,
George Groce

Would you please stop reiterating your college studies? I too am a college graduate, and am not hung up on technical vocabulary, not only hung up on it, but not even misspelling those in many cases.

You're not impressing anybody with your self-proclaimed intellect. The only thing you are doing is proving that your intellegence/doctrine...ahem...is more important than your faith.

If you approach "all matters including doctrine and Christianity" logically, then the catholic church or protestantism is the least of your worries.

Do you "logically" think you're saved? If you logically believe Jesus Christ was here in the flesh, then you can logically conclude you have eternal salvation?

Aah Brother Jim, that would not be a "loaded" question would it? My salvation is the most illogical thing that ever happened. I believe anyone's salvation is completely illogical.

Salvation comes from God's love. How God can love me or anyone for that matter is completely beyond me. I am also a college graduate and I cannot understand why God would want to save a worthless and miserable wretch like me. For what???

Some fellow wrote a book some time back called, "Why Bad Things Happen to Good People" or something similar to that. The title of the book ought really be, "Why Does Anything Good Happen to Us in the First Place?"

We as mortal sinners do not even deserve to live. The Bible says the wages of sin is death. It does not say the wages of SINS. It says that if we sin once we are guilty and worthy of death. I believe that to mean physical death of believers as well as the second death for non-believers. Since one sin places us into the category of those who deserve to die it is completely illogical that I should be alive this morning.

In Christ,
George Groce

Jim,

A college graduate is supposed to use technical vocabulary. I accept the doctrine of receiving Christ as Savior in order to be saved as a logical doctrine. If I received Christ as Savior then I am saved regardless if I am remaining in the Catholic Church because the only requirement for salvation is to receive Christ as Savior. Nothing else is required for salvation. Belonging to any church, not even a Fundamentalist or Evangelical Protestant Church has no bearing on salvation. And thus the church that someone who has received Christ as their Savior belongs to is of no consequence in terms of salvation as long as the church believes that Christ is God and believes in the Holy Trinity.

Oh well, I guess the vocabulary police are going to come arrest me then.

Robert, you have a definite problem with pride in your in your life. I believe there are a number of us here that are college graduates including myself. However a Christian is supposed to speak Bible. The language and speech of a Christian person who has a good relationship with God will resemble the language of the Bible. That we cannot boast in nor take any personal credit for. You see my friend, the ability to speak Bible is a gift of God.

In Christ,
George

George,

That is totally ridiculous that everybody who receives Christ as their Savior supposed to preaching the Bible all the time instead of communicating about other things like say their job or their family or whatever. Ministers who have received Christ as their Savior do not even preach the Bible all the time. If someone is a college graduate then one of the signs of them being a college graduate would be their use of technical vocabulary.

All that glitters is not gold and All that graduates is not smart.

A Diploma doth not a scholar make.

Technical language doth not equal college education.

Does a university degree enable you to use even better technical language?

I know some graduates who are complete morons.

I know some one without any formal qualifications but could intellectually whip any one else I know.

The "college educated" Pharisees were humbled by some "High School" educated fishermen.

I feel my point has been made.

Anyway, back to the thread.

I do not grasp how you can be a Catholic but not be in agreement? If my allegiance lies with Uzbekistan how can I remain British?

Hey, I am not!













JK

Love in Christ,

Jim

Jim, would I say that about you? I am actually very impressed with your knowledge of Scriptures and you have wisdom.

Two things there that no college can give (though they can help). They come from God alone.

GET OUT!!!!

Just get out of the Church and leave!!!

You are not a Catholic and therefore you don't belong in the Lord's Church.

Go join the heretics you are in such sympathy with.

Better yet, go start your own assembly. That is what all heretics do when they decide that they know the mind of God better than anyone else on earth.

LEAVE!!!

Just leave.

Just feel the love. I thought the modern day catholic cult was all about reaching out to their brethren who had left the fold and bringing them back into the Mother (of Harlots) church.