So, now that I have your attention, I have a question.

Calvinists typically believe inthe doctrines of grace and God's sovereignty. I also agree with the general docrtine of Calvinism, but I see with many denominations standing on Calvinism(e.g. reformists) a serious contradiction.

How is it many people can claim God's perfect will and federal headship and claim He has and is in control of everything, yet will use modern versions for their scripture? This is an enormous contradiction that I feel needs to be addressed.

If you, as a Calvinist, believe that God is in control of everything according to His purpose and sovereign will, then why would you use a translation that consistenly denies that will, not only will, but the very deity of His Son Jesus Christ?

Just a question.....

Love in Christ,

Jim

This post was last modified: Sat Apr 08, 2006 01:04 PM by Jim.

If you desire to look into the KJV's value and discussion, please go here:

http://www.fundamentalpreaching.com/foru...c.php?t=32

Love in Christ,

Jim

But don't the Calvinists, many of them, believe that God sovereignly decided to allow the manuscripts to accumulate errors to that the originals and anything ancient would not be worshipped? I talked to some Calvinists and that's pretty much what they say. "God arranged teh words of the original in such a way that over the years the jist, or the main truth of any given passage, would still be accessible. We just have to read a couple translations if we want to preseume to have an absolute on anything, n most cases."

Hey, things are working out pretty swell. I got an internet connection! So we can continue to talk, though not nearly as much. I'm to be very busy.

Talk you all later.

I have never heard a Calvinist assert this, if they do, then they are wrong. It goes completely against:

Love in Christ,

Jim

Yes, purified! I agreee 100 percent!

Since I got over here, I'm wondering abuot something. The missionaries I'm visiting are handing out bibles in russian so teh people can read it in their own language, but it's not the King James and that worries me. Russian is a Slavic , closely related to Ukrainian and Belarusian, and we bump into Ukrainian-speaking people sometimes. Here's an except from the IBS Bible they're handing out:

О, если бы Ты укрыл меня в мире мёртвых,спрятал меня, пока не пройдёт Твой гнев!О, если бы Ты установил мне срок,а потом вспомнил бы обо мне! Будет ли жить человек, умерев?Все дни повинности я бы ждал,когда придёт моё избавление. Ты бы позвал, и я бы ответил;творение Твоих рук тронуло бы Тебя. Тогда Ты считал бы мои шаги,но мои грехи не выискивал бы; (Job 14,13-16 CRS) Job 14,13-16

I've had to use this to tell the gospel to them, although rarely (my Russian is not very good). But occasionally I get opportunity. What should I do? Should I make this an issue? These missionaries are such kind people, but they don't know that this translation may not be preserved like the KJV. Can you lead me to a Russian translation that is 100 percent preserved like the KJV? I would feel very bad if the russian people did not have a 100 preserved translation.

Here's what worries me (I found this on the IBS website):

"This IBS translation of the New Testament is for the Russian language, which is primarily used in Russian Federation. An estimated 167,000,000 people speak this language as their mother tongue. This translation uses a informal language style and applies a meaning-based translation philosophy. It is translated from the original languages and was completed in 1998. Some publications include LAB notes."

Okidokie, talk later. God Bless!

jamesbondreturns


okidokie

Ray

That is an excellent question for which I have no answer.

There are many, many cases in which a substandard source is used in translation, and goes right along with the old adage "gargage in, garbage out". They are not getting the Word of God.

My whole issue with the current translations into other tongues is somewhat different, and I will not voice them entirely here.


But let me say this. If a person is led by the Holy Spirit to create a translation into a foreign tongue using the bases of texts using the majority text/TR derivatives, then I don't think I can say that it wouldn't be any good. I am not conclusive in this, but it would at least have the preserved lineage as it's basis.

Hope this helps, just my opinion on the issue.

Love in Christ,

Jim

The New International Version of the Bible is a completely new translation of the Holy Bilbe made by over a hundred scholars working directly from the best available Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts.

Let me state first that I love the KJV and use it mainly, but I also like the NKJV which I find very good in comparison with the KJV.
But what I would like to know is who decides which are standard or substandard sources? Are they not the same and are not all of them inspired?
And why would God not be able to use any type of translation in working out His purpose?
Why is the KJV the best translation?, its language is very odd and very hard to understand for todays generation.
The version I love best is the Dutch Staten Bible, which I believe is the closest to the original and very readable, and did not have anything to be changed.


God bless,
Pastor Wally

Jim stated, and I quote:

If you, as a Calvinist, believe that God is in control of everything according to His purpose and sovereign will, then why would you use a translation that consistenly denies that will, not only will, but the very deity of His Son Jesus Christ?

Which translation do you have in mind Jim?
And which translation consistently denies God's will and the deity of Christ?

Pastor Wally

WRONG!

If you had done any studies as into the preservation of God's Word, you would see how just about, if not all, modern version have changed the originals to reflect corruption.

Again, here we go with the "scholars" who translated.

Let me ask you a question. Is the only requirement for a proper translation of God's word, to be a "scholar"?

I truly believe we are a representation of the Laodicean Church. I can't even count as high as the amount of "christians" who assert their intellect over God's sovereignty, no matter how Calvinistic they "claim" to be. We have truly left our first love, and elevated our intellect over Gods Word.

We are fulfilling prophecy and warnings against ourselves and many don't even know it.

I am not specifically referring to you Walter, but many, many christians.

Please explain to me how 5% of all manuscripts extant are the "best", which disagree with over 5,000 (95%) of the others, of which the KJV only agrees?

Love in Christ,

Jim

I just read all the pages of the thread about this subject and I am flabbergasted.
How anyone can claim the KJV to be inspired is beyond me, only the writers were inspired.
21For the prophecy came not in old timed{d in old time: or, at any time} by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
However, having read what is said about it I better not start a new discussion on that subject,
Just ignore my questions

God bless;
Pastor Wally

Show us anywhere in this thread where someone claimed that the KJV is/was inspired.

KJV is not inspired, just the faithful and reliable translation of the faithful and reliable manuscripts.

Just to throw a stick into the spokes...
How is it we can say that God's word is "preserved" in a translation? On a printed page, hard drive, or anywhere else?... God's Word is and will be preserved, is being preserved; but not on the printed page or plastic chip of which are wood, hay and stubble... It is preserved in the eternal spirit of the redeemed as it goes forth not returning void.... A Bible on a shelf unread is not God's LIVING Word. It is when the said Bible is read, preached, taught, and the FATHER calls and The HOLY SPIRIT gives understanding, and Christ Jesus gives grace. Then the soul that follows that call and accepts the Gospel and is indwelt with the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD then has God's Word within them "PRESERVED" Heb 10:16, 1 Thes 5:23. The Bible on the printed page is only a tool, a text book, to bring out the truths of the HOLY SPIRIT. A verification of the truth of God, Nature can also do the same if one listens to the HOLY SPIRIT. 1 Cor 11:14, Rom 2:14.. The Bible itself says it is not complete, Jesus did more and the world could not contain John 21:25. But it is MORE than Sufficient and all we need for life this side of Heaven. The Bible is a rule of measure to "try" the spirits.
I trust the translation of the King James Bible TRANSLATION because it has proven itself to be faithful, through the Spirit of God in many a man. In our circles, I see many who worship the printed page and standards rather than our Wonderful Risen Saviour. Reading the Bible IS important...but LIVING the Bible is much more so. I would rather live a few verses unto life eternal than even memorize the whole, as surely Satan has, yet be damned because of disobedience to God and the Holy Spirit.

Stick # 2… Can a person get saved without a Bible or preacher?....hhmm. IF the answer is NO then many are going to stand before Christ Jesus with a good excuse. Maybe this would be a good question for a post…..

PS 143:10 Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness.
If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
The WORD of Christ Jesus himself said....
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Rom 9:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Heb10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1 Thes 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another


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