Sun Jan 29, 2006 , 06:25 PM
Thu Feb 28, 2008 , 02:48 PM
Bible Believer Wrote:Where was the word of God before 1611?The word of God was scattered, but when the Reformation happened, there was a gathering,and in time the purification of the English Bible came to be settled as the Holy Bible 1611.Finally the whole truth was is just one book.
http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/before1611.html
In the service of the King,
Craig
There were many good witnesses to the same pure text of the AV all through the centuries including the earliest papri.
Over time the Byzantine line was the accepted line of the true Bible and all good bibles are in agreement with the Byzantines line.
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:
Thu Feb 28, 2008 , 06:35 PM
The Church has AlLWAYS had the true Word of God.
6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Thu Feb 28, 2008 , 08:27 PM
Davo Wrote:The Church has AlLWAYS had the true Word of God.But not all at one place in one volume,in purified form as the AV.
6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
They are the pure word of God in the fact that they consistently follow the correct foundational texts, but are not without their faults in presentation.
Even the AV, being the final purification in a line of the pure text was not pure in its presentational form as it is now.
Yes, the Church has had the true words all along, but not 100% in one place,namely, in one book.
Some places there were verses missing or truncated until all of the corrections by God through the Translators and the moving of the Holy Ghost upon them came about.
For instance, some of the Bibles that the King James folk say have made changes are in fact just using some of what the pre-1611 Reformation versions had.
Some are considered legit and others are wrong.
*******
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:
Fri Feb 29, 2008 , 09:52 PM
But not all at one place in one volume,in purified form as the AV.
Sorry, I cannot agree.
The Word says: from this generation for ever. I agree that all christians did not have all the scriptures, but they were preserved. The Paulikians, for instance had only the Gospels and the letters of Paul at the beginning, but later their enemies could say thet the had the "Pure and unadulterated scriptures."
If thge Word says that the Lored will preserve them from that generation for ever, that means all generations.
Sorry, I cannot agree.
The Word says: from this generation for ever. I agree that all christians did not have all the scriptures, but they were preserved. The Paulikians, for instance had only the Gospels and the letters of Paul at the beginning, but later their enemies could say thet the had the "Pure and unadulterated scriptures."
If thge Word says that the Lored will preserve them from that generation for ever, that means all generations.
Sat Mar 01, 2008 , 12:36 AM
Davo - BRAVO, my Brother! Someone else finally sees this! Amen & Amen!
Thu Apr 10, 2008 , 01:54 PM
Mongol Servant Wrote:Davo - BRAVO, my Brother! Someone else finally sees this! Amen & Amen!Actually he is a blind as a bat on this account.
He refused to learn from facts.
It does not say "From this generation for ever IN ONE VOLUME"
The pure word has always been around but scattered, until the reformation.
The facts are that there is no pure text in presentational form until the 1611 was purified in its final form in 1900.
I can show obvious blunders in any version and in most KJBs.
But none will ever find an error or even a typo in the Pure Cambridge CIRCA 1900 edition of the 1611AV.
All King James bibles are the pure word of God, but not in the presentational form. There are spelling differences and even the odd contradiction.
Only one English Bible is 100%.
A good example is that of Joshua 19:2.
The correct reading for this verse is "or"
But many KJBs have the incorrect "and"
Count the cities.
Plus those same Bibles have "s" where it should read "S" for Spirit.
And in some places the opposite.
In 1611 this was not a huge issue But it was "an" issue, because even as early as 1612 they were already correcting some of the usages of the word [S]spirit.
You can see my documentation at Bible Protector .com.
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:
Thu Apr 10, 2008 , 02:48 PM
Peter, again I admonish you to hold yourself to a higher standard of discourse. When someone does not read the text as you do, he is not simply "blind as a bat". Each of us must come to an understanding within our spirits, not from being belittled or insulted. Remember that most of the members on this site are just as strong for the KJB as you are. We are on the same team. You don't win the battle if you beat up your own people.
The end result of either side of this argument is that TODAY we have a text that is complete and perfect. It matters little for our spiritual lives what existed or did not exist in the distant past. God HAS preserved His Words, and we can read them for ourselves. That is all that counts.
The end result of either side of this argument is that TODAY we have a text that is complete and perfect. It matters little for our spiritual lives what existed or did not exist in the distant past. God HAS preserved His Words, and we can read them for ourselves. That is all that counts.
Sat May 03, 2008 , 07:36 AM
Here's a handy chart, that Dr Jack Moorman, a Bible "scholar" from England, produced, that delineates the two(2) streams of text.[attachment=10]
Fri May 30, 2008 , 04:28 AM
Quote:The pure word has always been around but scattered, until the reformation.
The facts are that there is no pure text in presentational form until the 1611 was purified in its final form in 1900.
I can show obvious blunders in any version and in most KJBs.
But none will ever find an error or even a typo in the Pure Cambridge CIRCA 1900 edition of the 1611AV.
Oh dear! My mind is boggling
I'm sorry for those who do not speak English. Sad that Luther, Calvin & the Reformers did not have the pure Word. Even the King James "translators" (revisers of Tyndale, Coverdale et al) did not have the pure word because they did not have a pure KJB.
The Puritans & the Pilgrim Fathers preferred the Geneva translation, rather than KJ, because they knew that KJ had ordered the revision to remove words that were offensive to him as an absolute monarch.[/b]
The Protestant martyrs across Europe, & the North African martyrs suffering under the invasion of the Mohammedans did not have a pure English Bible to sustain them.
Poor Wycliffe only had the Latin Vulgate for his Englyshe translation, but his translation effectively began the Reformation & a tremendous hunger for the Word followed. There are still over 100 hand copied Wycliffe translations in existence.
That corrupt translation of a corrupt translation was the means of great blessing to the people of God more than 200 years before the evil monarch James came to the throne. People were saved by it, and died horrible deaths because of their faith.
The Apostles taught from the corrupt LXX Greek translation, & that is embodied in their letters.
The truth is that God by his Spirit moves sinners to seek him & enlightens them by whatever version they read. They see Christ & his saving death for them. They have a hunger for his Word & they grow as they read it as sincere milk. They are not poisoned because they read the "wrong" version, in a language they can understand.
Fri May 30, 2008 , 07:57 AM
Where was the word of God before 1611 and where is it today?
Those who promote the modern bible versions do not believe any Bible is the inspired, infallible, preserved, and pure words of the living God. They tell us "the original Hebrew and Greek" is their final authority, hoping no one will notice that there is no such animal on the face of this earth. They don't have it, have never seen it, and wouldn't recognize it if it fell on their heads.
There are no original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts anywhere. There are several different Hebrew texts plus the conflicting Dead Sea Scrolls. There are over 25 different conflicting Greek texts. The multitude of modern versions, like the NASB, NIV, RSV, ESV, depart scores of times from the Hebrew Masoretic texts, and often not in the same places. They are also based on very different Greek texts than that of the King James Bible, though none of them always follows the same Greek text as the others. The NKJV does not always follow the same Greek text as the KJB and the meaning has been radically changed in scores of verses. They often differ among themselves in both text and meaning, and contain several proveable theological errors.
We who believe God meant what He said about preserving His words are ridiculed as ignorant, backwater fanatics. We believe God is the sovereign ruler of history and has preserved for us today all His pure words in the King James Bible. God knew what would become of the English language and how the great modern missionary movement of the late 1700's through the 1950's would be carried out by American and English missionaries carrying one Bible and translating it into hundreds of foreign languages and dialects. No Bible in history has been used, honored and hated as much as the King James Bible. The King James Bible was even read outloud from space as the astronauts orbited the moon.
God also knew the great battle concerning the preservation of His words would take place during the times of the falling away from the faith before the glorious return of the Lord Jesus Christ. I think it quite possible that we are living in those times now. Never before has the Holy Bible itself been under such fierce attack. The supreme irony is that those who now attack the Bible are those who bear the name of Christians.
They refuse to believe that God has in fact preserved His words in the one Book that has been used and blessed by God a hundred times more than any other. History and the sovereignty of God bear witness that the King James Bible is that one Book, without proven error.
Many Whateverists of the "No Bible is inerrant" crowd ask the following questions: (These are actual quotes from one of the Bible clubs) "Why are you hung up on a translation since no translation is perfect? What about the other translations of the other nations of the world? Do you have an answer for them?
You King James Bible only people limit yourselves to just one language - English. Why are you so afraid to talk about other languages. What about the aboriginals of our nation? Do they have a Bible? If they do, would their translation be just as "perfect" as the KJV? Why or why not? Is your God so narrow-minded and bigoted that He only speaks to 10% or the world--the English part, and consigns 90% of the world to Hell because they cannot read and understand English, particularly Shakespearean English? My God is not that narrow-minded. The Bible says that God so loved the world, not just the KJV understanding crowd. He loves the Crees, the Punjabis, the Hindis, the Maoris, the Inuits, those that speak Urdu and Arabic, etc. But all of these are condemned to Hell because they have not the KJV, right?"
First of all, God does not condemn people to hell because they are not King James Bible only. God can and does save His people using a multitude of translations in hundreds of foreign languages. The gospel of salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is found in any bible version out there, no matter how incompletely or poorly translated it may be. Christ only promised that the gospel would be preached throughout all the world.
Secondly, God never promised that every nation or individual would have a perfect Bible, but He did promise to preserve His pure, complete and 100% true words in a Book somewhere on this earth. "Seek ye out of the Book of the LORD and read..." Isaiah 34:16.
God is under no obligation to give equal light or gifts to all people. There was a period of time when for about 2000 years only one small nation had the true and pure words of God. Psalm 147:19,20 says: "He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation; and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD."
God's ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts. God will hold us accountable for the light He has been pleased to give us. We who have the preserved and inerrant words of God in the English language of the King James Bible will be held far more accountable for what we have done with this book than those who cannot read English. "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48
And thirdly, the people who pose such questions as this individual asks are actually promoting the idea that there is no complete, inerrant and 100% true Bible in ANY language on this earth today. Not the Hebrew or the Greek, nor in any language. This is what they are being taught in most seminaries today. A recent poll shows that 85% of the students in America's largest Evangelical seminary openly admit that they do not believe in the Inerrancy of Scripture, and the percentages are getting higher each year.
God has promised to preserve His words, not in every language or to every people, but in such a way as they would be known by many of God's believing people. The Lord Jesus said: "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Matthew 24:35
God testifies through Isaiah in chapter 59:21 "As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever."
"For the LORD is good: his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations." Psalm 100:5
"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
"The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever." 1 Peter 1:25
We who believe the King James Bible to be the inerrant word of God do not place our trust in the King James translators. We do not defend their comments in the Preface, nor their theology, though I agree with much of it. We trust in God alone Who has fulfilled His promises to preserve His inspired words. He just happened to use the believing men of the 1611 Holy Bible as His instruments to continue this preservation.
They were not perfect nor without error in themselves. Just as God used Peter, though he denied the Lord and later separated himself from the Gentile believers and was to be blamed for his actions, (See Galatians 2:12-14) or Paul who was about to offer another blood sacrifice to appease the Jewish law-keepers in Acts 21:26, or John who twice fell down to worship an angel and was rebuked for it (See Rev. 19:10 and 22:8-9). God always uses imperfect vessels for His glory; if He didn't, nothing would ever get done.
Those who promote today's multiple, conflicting versions of God's words think they finally have the question that will stump the Bible believer and finally rob him of his faith in God's inerrant word. They ask us, "Well, where was the pure word of God BEFORE 1611?"
It will greatly enlighten your mind if you ask them the same question. They don't know where it was before 1611 either, or more importantly, where it is now. A very good educated guess would be that God preserved His perfect words in the Old Latin Bibles and then in the Waldensian latinized Bibles till the time of the Reformation. Theodore Beza, whose Greek text was used by the KJB translators, traces the Waldensian believers from around 120 A.D. to the Reformation. They were killed off by the thousands and their Bibles were burned by the Catholic persecutors. The Waldensians believed in the priesthood of every believer and the doctrines of grace. Then God's perfect words passed over to what was named simply The Holy Bible, later to be known as the King James Version. That is where they remain today in all their purity.
Regarding the Old Latin, which is not the same thing as the Catholic Vulgate, Agustine and Tertullian both speak of this ancient version as existing since 157-190 A.D. Some like Doug Kutilek try to discredit the testimony of the Old Latin bearing witness to the readings found in the KJB but not in versions like the NASB, NIV, RSV, and they cherry-pick a few verses to show divergent readings. There are only about 35 remaining portions or fragments of the Old Latin around today, but these bear ample witness to every one of the disputed verses that are omitted by most modern versions.
I have studied the issue myself and can prove that the following whole verses are included in all, most, or at least some of the Old Latin copies. This information is confirmed by using the Nestle-Aland Greek text critical notes - certainly no friend to the KJB.
The following verses which are omitted in the NIV, NASB, RSV, ESV, etc. are all found in copies of the Old Latin texts. Matthew 17:21; 18:11; 23:14; Mark 7:16; 9:44, 46; 11:26; 15:28; Luke 9:55.56; 17:36; 23:17; John 5:4; Acts 8:37; 15:34; 24:7; 28:29; Romans 16:24, and 1 John 5:7.
I have compiled a study of the major disputed readings found in the King James Bible as opposed to the modern versions like the NASB, NIV, ESV, Holman versions, and what the Old Latin texts say. You can see this study at this link on my website:
http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/Old Latin.html
We have only a very small portion remaining of all the Bibles and manuscripts that ever existed. Perhaps as little as one one hundreth, so there is no sure way of knowing what the other manuscripts and Bibles said - just as we do not have the "originals" and can't prove what they said. Of those that remain, no two are exactly alike in every detail, but of the approximately 5,000 portions and fragments that we have today, about 95% agree about 99% of the time with the King James Bible readings. The other 5% differs a great deal even among themselves, and it is this 5% that is used in most of today's "bibles".
Even the editors of the UBS Critical Greek text admit that multitudes of Greek manuscripts that once exited are no longer accessible.
Consider this statement by Kurt and Barbara Aland: "INNUMERABLE MANUSCRIPTS WERE DESTROYED during the persecutions and had to be replaced. The result was a widespread scarcity of New Testament manuscripts which became all the more acute when the persecution ceased... There also followed a sudden demand for large numbers of New Testament manuscripts in all provinces of the empire" (Aland, The Text of the New Testament, p. 65)
It is supremely important to have faith in God, both for our salvation and for believing that He has kept and preserved His words throughout every generation as He promised to do. If you cannot believe God has kept His promise to preserve His words, then how can you believe He will keep His promise to preserve your soul?
Ask any modern version promoter if he believes the originals were given by inspiration of God. He will enthusiastically respond in the affirmative. Yes, they were inspired. Then ask him how he knows this to be true. He has never seen them because they don't exist. He believes it by faith. In the same way we too have faith that God both inspired His original words and that He has preserved them through history and today they are found in the King James Bible.
The new version promoter and King James critic has no final authority but his own mind or his favorite scholar to tell him what God probably said. He has no infallible Bible and doesn't want you to have one either. He can't tell you where you can get a copy of God's pure words today, let alone where they were before 1611. "Thus saith the LORD" has been replaced with "Well, how does this version render it?"
"Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein." Jeremiah 6:16
Will Kinney
Where was the word of God before 1611?
Source:
http://www.kjv1611.org.uk/WHERE%20WAS%20...201611.htm
Those who promote the modern bible versions do not believe any Bible is the inspired, infallible, preserved, and pure words of the living God. They tell us "the original Hebrew and Greek" is their final authority, hoping no one will notice that there is no such animal on the face of this earth. They don't have it, have never seen it, and wouldn't recognize it if it fell on their heads.
There are no original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts anywhere. There are several different Hebrew texts plus the conflicting Dead Sea Scrolls. There are over 25 different conflicting Greek texts. The multitude of modern versions, like the NASB, NIV, RSV, ESV, depart scores of times from the Hebrew Masoretic texts, and often not in the same places. They are also based on very different Greek texts than that of the King James Bible, though none of them always follows the same Greek text as the others. The NKJV does not always follow the same Greek text as the KJB and the meaning has been radically changed in scores of verses. They often differ among themselves in both text and meaning, and contain several proveable theological errors.
We who believe God meant what He said about preserving His words are ridiculed as ignorant, backwater fanatics. We believe God is the sovereign ruler of history and has preserved for us today all His pure words in the King James Bible. God knew what would become of the English language and how the great modern missionary movement of the late 1700's through the 1950's would be carried out by American and English missionaries carrying one Bible and translating it into hundreds of foreign languages and dialects. No Bible in history has been used, honored and hated as much as the King James Bible. The King James Bible was even read outloud from space as the astronauts orbited the moon.
God also knew the great battle concerning the preservation of His words would take place during the times of the falling away from the faith before the glorious return of the Lord Jesus Christ. I think it quite possible that we are living in those times now. Never before has the Holy Bible itself been under such fierce attack. The supreme irony is that those who now attack the Bible are those who bear the name of Christians.
They refuse to believe that God has in fact preserved His words in the one Book that has been used and blessed by God a hundred times more than any other. History and the sovereignty of God bear witness that the King James Bible is that one Book, without proven error.
Many Whateverists of the "No Bible is inerrant" crowd ask the following questions: (These are actual quotes from one of the Bible clubs) "Why are you hung up on a translation since no translation is perfect? What about the other translations of the other nations of the world? Do you have an answer for them?
You King James Bible only people limit yourselves to just one language - English. Why are you so afraid to talk about other languages. What about the aboriginals of our nation? Do they have a Bible? If they do, would their translation be just as "perfect" as the KJV? Why or why not? Is your God so narrow-minded and bigoted that He only speaks to 10% or the world--the English part, and consigns 90% of the world to Hell because they cannot read and understand English, particularly Shakespearean English? My God is not that narrow-minded. The Bible says that God so loved the world, not just the KJV understanding crowd. He loves the Crees, the Punjabis, the Hindis, the Maoris, the Inuits, those that speak Urdu and Arabic, etc. But all of these are condemned to Hell because they have not the KJV, right?"
First of all, God does not condemn people to hell because they are not King James Bible only. God can and does save His people using a multitude of translations in hundreds of foreign languages. The gospel of salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is found in any bible version out there, no matter how incompletely or poorly translated it may be. Christ only promised that the gospel would be preached throughout all the world.
Secondly, God never promised that every nation or individual would have a perfect Bible, but He did promise to preserve His pure, complete and 100% true words in a Book somewhere on this earth. "Seek ye out of the Book of the LORD and read..." Isaiah 34:16.
God is under no obligation to give equal light or gifts to all people. There was a period of time when for about 2000 years only one small nation had the true and pure words of God. Psalm 147:19,20 says: "He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation; and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD."
God's ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts. God will hold us accountable for the light He has been pleased to give us. We who have the preserved and inerrant words of God in the English language of the King James Bible will be held far more accountable for what we have done with this book than those who cannot read English. "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48
And thirdly, the people who pose such questions as this individual asks are actually promoting the idea that there is no complete, inerrant and 100% true Bible in ANY language on this earth today. Not the Hebrew or the Greek, nor in any language. This is what they are being taught in most seminaries today. A recent poll shows that 85% of the students in America's largest Evangelical seminary openly admit that they do not believe in the Inerrancy of Scripture, and the percentages are getting higher each year.
God has promised to preserve His words, not in every language or to every people, but in such a way as they would be known by many of God's believing people. The Lord Jesus said: "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Matthew 24:35
God testifies through Isaiah in chapter 59:21 "As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever."
"For the LORD is good: his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations." Psalm 100:5
"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7
"The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever." 1 Peter 1:25
We who believe the King James Bible to be the inerrant word of God do not place our trust in the King James translators. We do not defend their comments in the Preface, nor their theology, though I agree with much of it. We trust in God alone Who has fulfilled His promises to preserve His inspired words. He just happened to use the believing men of the 1611 Holy Bible as His instruments to continue this preservation.
They were not perfect nor without error in themselves. Just as God used Peter, though he denied the Lord and later separated himself from the Gentile believers and was to be blamed for his actions, (See Galatians 2:12-14) or Paul who was about to offer another blood sacrifice to appease the Jewish law-keepers in Acts 21:26, or John who twice fell down to worship an angel and was rebuked for it (See Rev. 19:10 and 22:8-9). God always uses imperfect vessels for His glory; if He didn't, nothing would ever get done.
Those who promote today's multiple, conflicting versions of God's words think they finally have the question that will stump the Bible believer and finally rob him of his faith in God's inerrant word. They ask us, "Well, where was the pure word of God BEFORE 1611?"
It will greatly enlighten your mind if you ask them the same question. They don't know where it was before 1611 either, or more importantly, where it is now. A very good educated guess would be that God preserved His perfect words in the Old Latin Bibles and then in the Waldensian latinized Bibles till the time of the Reformation. Theodore Beza, whose Greek text was used by the KJB translators, traces the Waldensian believers from around 120 A.D. to the Reformation. They were killed off by the thousands and their Bibles were burned by the Catholic persecutors. The Waldensians believed in the priesthood of every believer and the doctrines of grace. Then God's perfect words passed over to what was named simply The Holy Bible, later to be known as the King James Version. That is where they remain today in all their purity.
Regarding the Old Latin, which is not the same thing as the Catholic Vulgate, Agustine and Tertullian both speak of this ancient version as existing since 157-190 A.D. Some like Doug Kutilek try to discredit the testimony of the Old Latin bearing witness to the readings found in the KJB but not in versions like the NASB, NIV, RSV, and they cherry-pick a few verses to show divergent readings. There are only about 35 remaining portions or fragments of the Old Latin around today, but these bear ample witness to every one of the disputed verses that are omitted by most modern versions.
I have studied the issue myself and can prove that the following whole verses are included in all, most, or at least some of the Old Latin copies. This information is confirmed by using the Nestle-Aland Greek text critical notes - certainly no friend to the KJB.
The following verses which are omitted in the NIV, NASB, RSV, ESV, etc. are all found in copies of the Old Latin texts. Matthew 17:21; 18:11; 23:14; Mark 7:16; 9:44, 46; 11:26; 15:28; Luke 9:55.56; 17:36; 23:17; John 5:4; Acts 8:37; 15:34; 24:7; 28:29; Romans 16:24, and 1 John 5:7.
I have compiled a study of the major disputed readings found in the King James Bible as opposed to the modern versions like the NASB, NIV, ESV, Holman versions, and what the Old Latin texts say. You can see this study at this link on my website:
http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/Old Latin.html
We have only a very small portion remaining of all the Bibles and manuscripts that ever existed. Perhaps as little as one one hundreth, so there is no sure way of knowing what the other manuscripts and Bibles said - just as we do not have the "originals" and can't prove what they said. Of those that remain, no two are exactly alike in every detail, but of the approximately 5,000 portions and fragments that we have today, about 95% agree about 99% of the time with the King James Bible readings. The other 5% differs a great deal even among themselves, and it is this 5% that is used in most of today's "bibles".
Even the editors of the UBS Critical Greek text admit that multitudes of Greek manuscripts that once exited are no longer accessible.
Consider this statement by Kurt and Barbara Aland: "INNUMERABLE MANUSCRIPTS WERE DESTROYED during the persecutions and had to be replaced. The result was a widespread scarcity of New Testament manuscripts which became all the more acute when the persecution ceased... There also followed a sudden demand for large numbers of New Testament manuscripts in all provinces of the empire" (Aland, The Text of the New Testament, p. 65)
It is supremely important to have faith in God, both for our salvation and for believing that He has kept and preserved His words throughout every generation as He promised to do. If you cannot believe God has kept His promise to preserve His words, then how can you believe He will keep His promise to preserve your soul?
Ask any modern version promoter if he believes the originals were given by inspiration of God. He will enthusiastically respond in the affirmative. Yes, they were inspired. Then ask him how he knows this to be true. He has never seen them because they don't exist. He believes it by faith. In the same way we too have faith that God both inspired His original words and that He has preserved them through history and today they are found in the King James Bible.
The new version promoter and King James critic has no final authority but his own mind or his favorite scholar to tell him what God probably said. He has no infallible Bible and doesn't want you to have one either. He can't tell you where you can get a copy of God's pure words today, let alone where they were before 1611. "Thus saith the LORD" has been replaced with "Well, how does this version render it?"
"Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein." Jeremiah 6:16
Will Kinney
Where was the word of God before 1611?
Source:
http://www.kjv1611.org.uk/WHERE%20WAS%20...201611.htm
Sat May 31, 2008 , 01:40 PM
I also believe the Word of God was preserved for us prior to the King James Bible. I also believe it was fragmented but it was there. If one takes the time to read back over the history of the English Bible prior to 1611 it is plain to see the Word of God was there, it just took the scholars of that time to put it all together in one form that was accessible to the English speaking people.
As far as other languages are concerned I believe the Bible is preserved for them also in their native languages but I believe the true translation of those languages to be based upon the King James Bible.
The King James Bible was based on the Bishop's Bible of 1602. Therefore I believe it true other Bibles can be based upon other Bibles.
In Christ,
George
As far as other languages are concerned I believe the Bible is preserved for them also in their native languages but I believe the true translation of those languages to be based upon the King James Bible.
The King James Bible was based on the Bishop's Bible of 1602. Therefore I believe it true other Bibles can be based upon other Bibles.
In Christ,
George
Sat May 31, 2008 , 06:14 PM
Olivetan's French bible was translated nearly a century before the KJV. Was that not a preserved WORD?
http://www.ecritures-saintes.com/oliveta...table.html
http://www.ecritures-saintes.com/oliveta...table.html
Mon Jun 02, 2008 , 08:12 AM
Sorry to be controversial BUT ....
The KJB did not immediately preside over blessings to the church. Within a few years the Pilgrim Fathers sailed to America, taking their Geneva Bible. The influence of the established church led to arrogance of the kings, & civil war.
Once re-established with KJB supreme, & Geneva no longer printed, the church expelled every faithful pastor, with many severe restrictions. Only in 1689 was there a measure of freedom for dissenters. Hence the 1689 Baptist Confession.
Meanwhile the English Presbyterians had degenerated into unitarianism, though they had the KJB.
When the first modern "Revised Version" was introduced in 1881, it was welcomed because, despite the KJB, modernism was being welcomed & the "downgrade controversy" was taking its toll.
The various cults began in the 19th C with the KJB as their authority.
Throughout, the LIVING Word has been ministered by the Holy Spirit, ever active in his people, and speaking through the Word in the hands & on the lips. The KJB was the means of blessing where its truth was believed & proclaimed, not because it was unique as an inspired translation, but because its truth was believed & proclaimed, & there was no other then available in English.
The KJB did not immediately preside over blessings to the church. Within a few years the Pilgrim Fathers sailed to America, taking their Geneva Bible. The influence of the established church led to arrogance of the kings, & civil war.
Once re-established with KJB supreme, & Geneva no longer printed, the church expelled every faithful pastor, with many severe restrictions. Only in 1689 was there a measure of freedom for dissenters. Hence the 1689 Baptist Confession.
Meanwhile the English Presbyterians had degenerated into unitarianism, though they had the KJB.
When the first modern "Revised Version" was introduced in 1881, it was welcomed because, despite the KJB, modernism was being welcomed & the "downgrade controversy" was taking its toll.
The various cults began in the 19th C with the KJB as their authority.
Throughout, the LIVING Word has been ministered by the Holy Spirit, ever active in his people, and speaking through the Word in the hands & on the lips. The KJB was the means of blessing where its truth was believed & proclaimed, not because it was unique as an inspired translation, but because its truth was believed & proclaimed, & there was no other then available in English.
Mon Jun 02, 2008 , 08:41 AM
The KJB is a word for word translation.Liberals and Texual Critics only believe the originals were inspired therefore leaving them with no infallible inerrant without error living Word sharper than any twoedged sword.
Ebenezer where is your infallible Bible?
I have mine that God for His promise to preserve them.Amen!
I guess since Moses broke the first set of tablets with the 10 commandments and God copied another set of Commandments Moses was without a infallible inerrant without error set of commandments.Remember Moses did not have the originals left.
In Christ!
Brother Miller!
Ebenezer where is your infallible Bible?
I have mine that God for His promise to preserve them.Amen!
I guess since Moses broke the first set of tablets with the 10 commandments and God copied another set of Commandments Moses was without a infallible inerrant without error set of commandments.Remember Moses did not have the originals left.
In Christ!
Brother Miller!